xjwsforChrist

If your point is to point out that earthbound organizations have huge potential for evil, you won't get any arguments from me.
Power corrupts.
That said, individuals have done some pretty horrific deeds too.
All that proves is that people suck regardless of religious affiliations or spirituality.
Is their corruption in the RCC? yes, of course and I don't know any RC who says their church is "without sin".
1700 years ago it wasn't any difference, to the point that St Augustine said this most memorable of quotes:
The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of saints.

No truer words have been spoken.

PaulS says....

I believe that any JW that in their heart truly believes that Christ is their Lord and Saviour is part of the Body of Christ.



Can I ask you Paul, don't all JWs believe in their heart that CHRIST is Lord and their savior? And yet how can they be part of the body of CHRIST when they do not ( or not allowed ) partake of " his body by eating of his flesh and drinking his blood,". Proclaiming that union to his body?

Paul says...
Yes, Yes I do because Christ would NEVER turn away anyone, no matter how misguided, if their faith in Him is real.


I would agree with this, as I believe at one point when I was inside of the WTBS my belief and faith was real but grossly misguided. This is why I heard the spirit tell me at Romans 10:2. " I had a ZEAL for god, but not according to accurate knowledge."

So then if CHRIST would NEVER turn any away because of their faith in Him, do you think that possibly this is how the admonition is needed and can be fulfilled in Revelation 18:4 to "Get our of her 'MY PEOPLE'.....so that we do not share in her sins and receive her plagues, therefore he saying to us, " get away from me....I NEVER knew you!" ( regardless of the good deeds).



Paul says....
I do NOT believe that one can proclaim and believe without having/choosing to have a personal relationship with Christ and because of that and because so many JW's put the WT between them and Christ I do feel that many are not as close to Christ as they think but that is between them and Christ and I KNOW that He is there for them.


And I do agree my brother!

Just a thought
Love to you always
Justmom

That is between them and Christ and I thank the Lord that our salvation and belong to HIM has NOTHING to do with what we do to deserve it but everything to do what HE DID for Us.
Amazing Grace indeed.

Not sure what you are asking...
That there are those that worship Our Lord and Our Father in a way that is probably LESS right than they would like is, IMO, a given because of our fallen nature and our tendency to follow others who have what we think is "authority" ( GB, Council of Cardinals, etc.).
That God knows our intentions and what is truly in our hearts is ( for some) our saving grace and (for others) their condemnation.
The people of Israel had personal experience God, first hand experience and they still faltered and doubted and turned their backs and demanded another human to rule over them, just like the other nations had ( even though they knew the other nations to be in the wrong).
Part of our nature, is demonstrated by Adam, is to blame others for our screw ups.
It's nice to be able to point to another and say, " He told me and He has authority".

That said, IMO, I believe that those that put their faith in Christ and solely in Christ and DIRECTLY in Christ, that their faith will be rewarded because of the great love and trust they show not only in Christ BUT themselves as well.
And the rest?
John 5 answers that well I think:

Based on my personal experience in the WTBS, despite my loyalty to Jah and Christ and my misguided loyalty to the organisation that I believed They were leading, the Spirit within me would not LET me stay in there. Meetings that expressed anything that contravened that Spirit made me ill. I mean really ill, physically ill. So often I'd have to leave the hall and go home and pray, and the Spirit would comfort me and I'd feel better. It was extraordinary to say the least. And many will recall that in 'there' no disagreement was allowed, I felt stuck, completely. Unable to leave for fear of hurting Jah and Christ, unable to stay, with the effects of their teaching.

In the end Jah DRAGGED me out. I believe this absolutely. The way that circumstances were brought about it's very clear to see, and He showed me soon after. My point is that I'm sure that the Spirit will similarly act upon others in 'her',in fact we can see this from the Anointed websites emerging. We DO have to "get out of her" and unless we reject the leadings of the Spirit, all will know this.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

There are people that find great comfort in the JW religion.
I know that my parents have found that since my dad's illness.
The camaraderie and friendship.

LOZ.....

Hello my sister (((smile)))

He too drug me out.... LOL and it happened from start to finish in a couple weeks.
I was physically sick as well as my flesh could not keep up with what the spirit was giving me so fast.
But I asked it !!!!!! And he gave me exactly what's asked for!

I could not be more thankful for his patience and love and forgiveness for that.

But for you and me my sister, although he KNEW us and we could have still made the choice to have stayed in... it wasn't until " we quit touching the unclean thing, and got out of her, and fled the city that the Romans (those responsible for enslaving US) were encamped around before it was destroyed...and came to CHRIST " truly" as His sheep, not mans, allowing CHRIST to continually lead is in the wilderness awaiting the promised land, the city having ' real foundation', 'paradise', New Jeruselum.'...
THAT WE CAN TRULY BE SONS AND DAUGHTERS!

Thank you for sharing

Love to you Justmom

I hear you JustMom, it was a little different for me, I was anointed, and became a 'daughter' when I'd left the WTBS briefly some years previously, and then thought I would have to return, so you can probably imagine the battle?

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Paul says...
Not sure what you are asking...
That there are those that worship Our Lord and Our Father in a way that is probably LESS right than they would like is, IMO, a given because of our fallen nature and our tendency to follow others who have what we think is "authority" ( GB, Council of Cardinals, etc.).
That God knows our intentions and what is truly in our hearts is ( for some) our saving grace and (for others) their condemnation.
The people of Israel had personal experience God, first hand experience and they still faltered and doubted and turned their backs and demanded another human to rule over them, just like the other nations had ( even though they knew the other nations to be in the wrong).
Part of our nature, is demonstrated by Adam, is to blame others for our screw ups.
It's nice to be able to point to another and say, " He told me and He has authority .[/quote]

PaulS

I apologize for not being clear.

CHRIST does not turn his back on those that belong to him. But it is ' his sheep' that belong to him. There are other " sheep" that don't.

If John 4:23,24 says' " Jah is a spirit and those worshiping him MUST worship with spirit and/in truth...

If we are part of something that we know is not by Holy Spirit and doesn't teach The Truth, CHRIST and what HE says)/ and by their fruits you will know this...because a little leaven ferments the whole lump, which makes it unclean, which makes it a place Jah cannot dwell...how can we justify holding on to and worshipping through a formal man made entity of religion when Jah say we MUST worship in TRUTH and if it is not truth which is CHRIST ONLY, then we are warned not by me but them...to " get out".

He didn't say it was okay because it's just " a little LESS right". ....a little leaven...

All religion is just " a little less right" Does Jah say its okay then?


Love Justmom

I was wondering if others thought that as well

And whoever asked about communion and a relationship with Jesus. Eating symbolic bread and grape juice is not necessary to have a relationship with him

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

[quote="YppuplleH" ]

And whoever asked about communion and a relationship with Jesus. Eating symbolic bread and grape juice is not necessary to have a relationship with him [/quote]


Hey Pup....

I understand what your sayin.
Have you ever read Johnn6:46-59?
Let me know what you think our Lord says is important in order to be in a relationship with Him?

Not my words....
Justmom

I read the entire chapter

"Belief"

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

HP

I agree!

It's just for me personally along with living my faith and belief, something that is important for me to do as well out of obedience to Him.

Love ya
Justmom

*slobbers on your head*

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Fortunately for us, Jesus doesn't leave us wondering how to follow him. He spells it out. In John Chapter14, he says , in verse 15:

"If you love me, keep my commandments"

So, if by having a relationship with Him you mean loving Him, following Him, there's what you have to do. Keep His commandments.

He then goes on to reassure us, understanding the loss we would feel when He was physically gone: "and I will pray the Father and He shall give you another Comforter" and goes on to describe the Holy Spirit.

In that lovely passage you gave the Puppy to read, justmom, Jesus promises that He will continue to sustain and feed us physically and spiritually with His own Body and Blood. He makes it absolutely clear that the act of Communion with Him is not symbolic at all. John 6: 55

"My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink"

Couldn't really be clearer, could it?