xjwsforChrist

Anyway, I love you, all of you, my brothers and sisters in Christ, including you dear Char. I hope we find peace, I hope we can serve him together, as a body. It's what He wants of us. So, maybe tonight I couldn't be quiet, but that's because He led me to speak out. Please forgive me if I've hurt any of you. I spoke from my heart.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Yes.

Peace and love to you Loz,

tammy

The whole thing is sheer myth, Loz, and the only people I know who have ever written thus are you and Shelby, and, of course, the unnamed and unidentified "many" who Shelby so frequently says agree with her on the matter, or have talked to her on the matter.

I mean, if someone thinks something I have done is wrong, they would surely mention it to me. Whyever would they talk to Shelby? That, most definitely, is not a Christian, open way to go about things.

Had they addressed me, no doubt such misunderstandings could have been seen for what they were and cleared up and done away with. But not one single person has ever written to me and said, "hey, look, why did you do this or that, it came over badly". Not one. Never. Ever. Other than you, but any responses I make are like water off a duck's back.

The only negative things that have ever been said to me on the board and off about me in connection with Loz have been by Shelby and Loz, variously on the board and privately. There has been no negative intention from me and I have been careful how I've responded to whatever has been said.

In addition, Shelby's assertion that she's had to cease private discussion with me might be more impressive and meaningful if she and I had been having a private discussion in the first place! In the very few PM's we've had over the months, Shelby shared with me some of the story of her life and I told her some of the story of mine...I am sure not all in either case. There was no discussion. And the insinuation that I had asked that someone not be allowed to post is a gross misrepresentation of the fact that I had made her aware that a nervous member other than myself had a problem with a potential poster about whom Shelby too shared her own concerns.

Not exactly how Shelby made it sound, is it? Makes you think? It certainly does me.

A myth, once created, will have its effect on the collective mind, and that has clearly been the intention of whoever started this.

Well, I find it sad, and I am sorry for you both.

By the way, Loz, just for the record, I am not "bitter" about the JW's. I have no reason to be bitter. I haven't lost anything. I do, however, consider them to be pernicious spreaders of lies and untruths and false representations (such as Rutherford's attitude to the RC Church and the warped pictures in magazines and booklets) and other such negative creation of demons in people's minds. Such manifestations come from only one place and it is not anywhere good. It's in marked contrast to the attitude of the Church and parishioners to me throughout, to my lovely family who supported and saw me through it, and also to the climate on JWN.

Having just seen your latest post, Loz, I have never misrepresented another's posts. Not once. But thank you very much for providing a further demonstration of what has gone on. I am obliged to you.

As a general rule of thumb, alarm bells ought to start ringing once any little break-away group start to think of themselves as the chosen few. Listen!!!!! Or find they are receiving messages for others. Reminds me so much of the manipulative techniques of the Kingdom Hall. Not bitter, Loz, just honest fact.

This kind of nonsense is, in my view, getting way, way beyond tedious. Peace and love are not empty words. They are only real when seen in action, and they're not much in genuine evidence over at least the last three pages of this thread.

Dear Char

My point of view is not revelant. And why would'nt I believe that he can speak to us individually when he says he does.
"Jah speaks to us by means of a SON." (Hebrews 1:2)
"This is MY Son, LISTEN to HIM."
"His sheep HEAR and LISTEN to HIS VOICE."

The WTBS had and has a problem with this. Because if we hear Christs voice and allow him to lead us as The Holy Spirit, we no longer NEED them!

The RCC had and has the same problem with this. Because if you hear Christs voice and allow him to lead you as The Holy Spirit, you no longer need them!

The WTBS is a mouthpiece/spokesman for Jah and Christ.
The RCC is a mouthpiece/spokesman/ for Jah and Christ.

The WTBS and the RCC are a mediator between Jah and Christ. Jah says "You have ONE mediator between God and man, Christ."

The WTBS is "unclean" because of its man-made doctrines, appalling history and insisting they are the truth and the means to salvation.
The RCC is "unclean" because of its man-made doctrines, appalling history and insisting they are the true church and the means to salvation.

True freedom is only through Christ. No one or no where else!This is the message that those who have been annointed are to preach as good news. ISAIAH 61:1-9

I was captive my whole life inside of the WTBS. I was led free by Christ and told to come out into the wilderness and allow HIM to lead me to the promised land. To not only walk with Him but be joined TO HIM as His body. What a priviledge and blessing.

This invitation is not exclusive. It is OPEN and FREE! But you have to want it!!!! But you have to follow Him!!!

He is NO MORE IN THE RCC than he is in the WTBS. There is no difference. Fear does allow us not to take that leap and "Let Go and Let God"

Dear Char, You started to take that leap when you left. You heard Him, as did I. We were in two different forms of slavery and captivity, but WE WERE SLAVES OF MAN. He called out to us to free us and to come to him, to belong to him, to be led by him, to be brides to HIM.

You do not need the Pope any more than I need the GB. ALL WE NEED IS LOVE AND CHRIST! He will do the rest. He will finish our training my sister.

I love you dispite our disagreements.
Peace and blessings to you JUSTMOM

Dear justmom,

Thank you for loving me despite our disagreements. That is kind of you.

But, justmom, I have no disagreement with you! Not at all! Not one! You have never been anything but loving and open in everything that I have seen in the forum, and I am just sorry that you feel you have disagreements with me. You have certainly never said anything untoward to me as far as I am aware!

Please just let me know, perhaps in a PM, of any way in which you feel I have upset you and I am sure we can put it right instantly!

But Char, you and I know don't we, that you repeatedly refused to privately discuss your attacks upon me? There is more, that I won't present here, but we both know that there is, don't we? What would make you deny this? I can't. I can only be honest, but my intent isn't to confront, as you're doing, but to make peace. Can't we do that? For Christ?

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

Dear Char... peace to you... and here are the responses I promised, dear one. Note, any bolding, underlining, coloring, etc., will be mine, to show WHY I responded to you... and respond now... as I did/do:



(Smile) I was sure, dear Char. I was being accommodating (which many folks need... and apparently value over truth)... and trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, that PERHAPS I misunderstood you. I know you and others would have considered it arrogant for me to say that "No, that's NOT what you stated." Since the record was there, I felt no need to be explicitly direct.

To my question: "Is it your position that you all are... ummmmmm... correct... BECAUSE you a "large body... all over the world, of very many denominations"?"



The question wasn't strange, dear Char. And there was nothing "in" what you wrote - it was simply what you wrote. Period. Really.



Ummmm... and that's not the same thing (you described it because many believe it)?

To my question: "Or is it because Christ himself revealed it to you?" I note that you response to THIS question was quite curious to me. It was:



Funny, I quoted that to YOU. But let me ask you now: you say, "indeed," that Christ revealed it to you (at least, that was MY question). May I ask HOW he did so?



So, your position is that God is the Holy Spirit? Okay, we'll look at that and the verses in a sec. But I have to ask you: Is Christ the Holy Spirit, as well? Paul, of course, wrote that he is (2 Corinthians 3:17). So, I have to ask: Is the Holy Spirit ALSO the Holy Spirit? I mean, per what you state, added to what Paul stated... is it not that God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are all "God"... but that God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are all... the Holy Spirit! Yes?

Are they all Christ, too (i.e., God, Christ, the Holy Spirit... all Christ)? I am not asking sarcastically. I am trying to understand how it changed from them all being God... to them now all being the Holy Spirit... and, depending on your response... them all being Christ.

"I shall ask the Father
and he will give you another Advocate
to be with you for ever,
that Spirit of truth
whom the world can never receive
since it neither sees nor knows him;
but you know him,
because he is with you, he is in you."

"but the Advocate, the Holy Spirit,
whom the Father will send in my name,
will teach you everything
and remind you of all I have said to you."


First, you DO know that the word "he" here, is from the Greek word autos, which means, in addition to "he"... also "she"... AND "it"... and that the Greek word for "whom" is hos... which also means "which" and "that"?

Second, it is the "spirit of truth." May I ask you, in light of Christ's words recorded just a few verses up (14:6)... who that "truth" is... and so whose SPIRIT was being spoken of? I will quote the verse for you:

"I am the way, the truth, and the life."

Based on what Christ is recorded to have said (since we're going with what he was recorded to have said), would it not have been HIS spirit (the spirit of truth) that the Father would send? Perhaps a closer look at the Greek will help. The Greek word for "Comforter" or "Advocate"... is parakletos... or "paraclete." Is there another verse, perhaps by someone who would KNOW, that would tell us who that "Comforter," "Advocate"... or paraclete is? There is. 1 John 2:2. That verse states:

"My children, I am writing this to prevent you from sinning; but if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, [Jesus] Christ, the upright." Jerusalem Bible

"My little sons, this I write to you, so that you may not sin. But if anyone has sinned, we have an Advocate with the Father, [Jesus] Christ, the Just One." Catholic Public Domain Bible


What about what that "spirit" does? You quoted:

"But when the Spirit of truth comes
he will lead you to the complete truth,
since he will not be speaking from himself
but will say only what he has learnt;"

I ask you: WHO leads God's sheep? Is it not the Fine Shepherd himself?

“Very truly I tell you Pharisees, anyone who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The one who enters by the gate is the shepherd of the sheep. The gatekeeper opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Do not the sheep FOLLOW the Shepherd... he who LEADS them? And what about who the sheep learn from? Christ said that that Spirit would not speak from itself/himself but only as it/he learned. Did he not say that HE did NOTHING of his own initiative, but ONLY as HE learned... from the Father??

Dear Char, our Lord did not call HIMSELF the "Holy" Spirit... because he had not yet been GIVEN that designation. Because he was not yet GLORIFIED:

"On the last day, the great day of the festival, [Jesus] stood and cried out: 'Let anyone who is thirsty come to me! Let anyone who believes in me come and drink! As scripture says, "From his heart shall flow streams of living water." He was speaking of the Spirit which those who believed in him were to receive; for there was no Spirit as yet because [Jesus] had not yet been glorified." John 7:37-39

He COULDN'T take credit/glory, dear one... for something that had NOT OCCURRED yet!



YES! And WHO is that One?

Hebrews 1:1, 2 - "In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things..."

Matthew 28:20 - "And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

John 14:23 - "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."

Romans 8:9, 10 - "You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of[e] his Spirit who lives in you."

To my question: "If he revealed it to you, HOW did he do that? By what means?"



But I did not see a response that answered the question, dear one, but only what appeared to be ambiguity and perhaps even avoidance.

To my question: " By holy spirit? And if by holy spirit, HOW did he do it? "



Again, you seem to be avoiding the question, not responding to it. My questions were quite specific.

To my question: "Or, if by holy spirit, do you mean by the Holy Spirit, isn't that the same one as Christ himself, per 2 Corinthians 3:17? "



Yet, 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18 states, in the JERUSALEM Bible:

"Now this Lord is the Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
And all of us, with our unveiled faces like mirrors reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the image that we reflect in brighter and brighter glory; this is the working of the Lord who is the Spirit."

To me comments/questions: "If so, and so by Christ, the Holy Spirit... where is the "extra" Holy Spirit you and others speak of coming from? Who is that one... and what is his/its 'name' (because many believe in such an entity because of their belief that Christ disciples were to be baptized "in the name of the Father (so, okay, JAH/JAHVEH, Yahweh, even Jehovah)... and of the Son (Jah eShua, Joshua, Yeshua, etc., or even "Jesus")... and pf the Holy Spirit (whose name is... what, dear one?)."



But it you who are in error, yes, as to WHOM that Spirit is? Or, at least, you're not in agreement with either Christ or Paul, as both of them are recorded, yes?

To me question: " If not by any of these, when HOW do you KNOW? Who (or what?) "told" you... and how?"



But you DIDN'T answer, dear one. You "deflected" by interjecting some comment about "lawyers' tricks", which were NOT used at ALL. I asked you very simply questions, in an effort to try to understand WHY you believe as you do.



Sadly, I must disagree, that it is YOUR submission that is in error, dear one. And not justified at all. Nor clearly stated but, again, ambiguous, if not avoiding, altogether.



Yes, but that's what I trying to do: find out WHY we differ... if we claim the same spirit and Christ.

To my comment: Yes. But I can share with you HOW I know, dear one. I am not sure your position is supported... by holy spirit, the Holy Spirit, Christ, the Bible, God, or anything other than the traditions and customs of men. I am open, however, to discussing it with you, if you care to.



And, again, I am TRYING to accommodate you, dear Char. Because, in TRUTH, your responses are neither supported... nor make sense. Truly. But I am giving YOU the benefit of the doubt that perhaps the ambiguity lies with me. But I don't think that's the case, luv.



I am not sure that that is accurate, dear one, but that a certain form of worship that has fomented to a much larger extent is what "separated." And so as I stated, I don't agree with ALL that such do. But thank you, for those who may not have.

To my comment: May I ask, on what do you base your position as to that? Because the chart indicates just the opposite. At least, the Arians seem to think so. I am not a fomenter of Arianism (and to clarify for those here who might be confused, dear Char and I are not meaning "Aryanism," as in modern skinheads/Nazism - they are not the same thing).



I did not comment so as to imply that you DO base your answers on such, dear one, but that apparently SOME believe as YOU stated (in effect) that no one who believed themself a christian did.

To my comment: "I'm sorry, dear, dear Char, but I can't see Peter, let alone Christ, needing fancy red shoes and great hats, etc. Nor can I see either of them living off money taken from widows... or sanctioning educational complexes/institutions, etc.



I'm exaggerating the presence of fancy red shoes and great hats, etc.? And money taken from widows, etc.??

And I am not sure you believe I am not singling you out, dear Char... but I'm not. I would pose the same questions to anyone. I only address you because YOU addressed ME (this was a thread I started, remember... and YOU responded to?)



And that was my point, which you initially denied, luv. That is what this was all about. That you can't see that YOU denied that, at the first, is... curious to me.

But I have now responded, as I believe you deserve. I hope some of it helps... and, as always, wish you the GREATEST of love and peace!

YOUR servant, sister and fellow slave of Christ,

Shellama

This kind of nonsense is, in my view, getting way, way beyond tedious. Peace and love are not empty words. They are only real when seen in action, and they're not much in genuine evidence over at least the last three pages of this thread.

CHAR

I understand how you may feel.
I'm sure our Lord was not perceived in his final days as very peace loving, when he spoke "truth"
But truth was more important to him than how others thought of him when he spoke about their formal system of worship. And sometimes that is our same error. When we all at times may not want to receive the truth from HIM, we blame it on not being loving and peaceful and kind. But that still does not make it truth!

Just a thought that I am still learning myself
Love Justmom

God is starting to feel rather saddening

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Chariklo wrote:

Dear justmom,

Thank you for loving me despite our disagreements. That is kind of you.

But, justmom, I have no disagreement with you! Not at all! Not one! You have never been anything but loving and open in everything that I have seen in the forum, and I am just sorry that you feel you have disagreements with me. You have certainly never said anything untoward to me as far as I am aware!

Please just let me know, perhaps in a PM, of any way in which you feel I have upset you and I am sure we can put it right instantly!

Char

Our disagreements have in no way upset or hurt me personally. No worries here.

Just need to share from my Lord when he shows me the comparisons of the "form of worship" that you currently have versus the one I left off in the WTBS.

It is always our person choice as to how we receive them or not.
love Justmom

Justmom said:


Good point, justmom. Although that stings a little bit for those of us that do not yet hear his voice, but necessary for our instruction, I suppose.

Can you and the other hearers maybe answer that question? For those of you that did not always hear, but now do, were you only his sheep after you began to hear Him?

And what about him leading people out of false religions or leading them to this site, etc. Wouldn't they be his sheep if he was leading them? I don't know. Just some questions I thought of when I read your post. I am enjoying you being more vocal, justmom.

Thank you Ataloa...

I am glad that this is encouraging to you. It is to me as well, much so!
To answer your questions, for ME personally, I realized although not listening much of my life to CHRIST directly but instead to an organization that called themselves Christ ( THE TRUTH) I still believe in my heart I was "A" sheep. A sheep that was misled but still a sheep. ( John 10 )

In my heart I was always wanting to serve the true God and when the WTBS told me to " be doers of the word and not just hearers " I to my best ability practiced it daily. I allowed myself to be truly ignorant of what and how the " wolves in sheeps covering" continually operated in abusing and lieing to the sheep.

Because my Lord continually never gave up on me inside that entity and continued to " call me" it was at a time in my life that I realized that what that organization had taught me my life, I could
" actually" begin to practice.
Christ alone is your mediator, Holy Spirit can teach you, Jah doesn't dwell in a handmade temple, we must develop a strong personal relationship with Jah in preparation for the great tribulation when we may not have the corporation, etc...

So I began to listen " inside of ME" to that voice that so many think it is just your conscience, or intuition, or gut feeling, or YOU talking to YOURSELF.

It was then that the bible opened up to me as I was reading it now as it truly was, and seeing that I had never given Christ the time of day. It was always Jehovah as everything.

Then I began to see that it was CHRIST that not only was " the truth" but he was everything as Jah gave ALL power and authority to HIM.
I then knew I must know Him. I could never know the father if I did not know the son.
I begged to know HIM!

It was then and it happened extremely fast for me, that his voice told me to " Get out of Her my people".... I was like WHAT? I was " that people" he was referring to.

He told me to " Come to Him". That he would forgive me, heal me, give me true spiritual eyesight, no longer being blind, lead me by means of Holy Spirit and that anointing would be teaching me and I would no longer need man to teach me ANYTHING. All I had to do was " want it"
I had been seeking, knocking and asking, and he said he is the door and I must open it and go through HIM as HIS SHEEP NOW!!!!!!

Can you imagine my joy? I was beside myself. I had been under the impression my whole life that only 144,000 could have this! What a fool I was.

I knew as long as I continued to hear and obey His voice I was " His sheep". And that I belonged to Him and no other master as their slave.
But I was reminded that he could not take me in as HIS SHEEP until I had quit touching the unclean thing....for me that was the WTBS. I could no longer attach myself to any other form of man made worship or structure that he reminded me of what I had known but not listened to my whole life.

So if CHRIST is leading you, then you are "His sheep."
When he calls us out and we choose to listen, it is like the Israelites that left slavery in Egypt and went into the wilderness. But what WE DO THERE is important. He is leading us by the hand always taking care of us and leading us up to spiritual mount Zion, toward the kingdom, the promised land!

But at any time we can choose to (1) Return, because the structure and so- called food was better in slavery (wtbs) easier, took less faith because we could " see it" we were told what to do, what to read, how to dress etc and didnt need faith, (2)We could murmur thinking he abandoned us, took too long to return or brought us out to die. (3) We could go ahead and build another miniature religious structure, a golden calf to worship, slave for it, bow down to it, thinking it will bring you salvation.

What our Lord wants is to share this good news to everyone! That they too can belong to Him and only Him, no structure, no building/ church, that the true church are people in union with him. You cannot slave for two masters. You cannot walk by faith and worship in spirit with truth and use a man- made structure to serve this purpose.

All through history man shows how corrupt they become when they use God and Holy Spirit as a means to trap poor sheep into believing they are " THE WAY"

So, I hope I have helped answer your questions. I appreciate your kindness and sharing as well.

Love to you
Justmom

Part of my response to dear Char...

I'm sure our Lord was not perceived in his final days as very peace loving, when he spoke "truth"
But truth was more important to him than how others thought of him when he spoke about their formal system of worship. And sometimes that is our same error. When we all at times may not want to receive the truth from HIM, we blame it on not being loving and peaceful and kind.
But that still does not change the fact that it is truth .

My apologies, I could not go back an edit this. So I did here. Thank you in advance,
Love Justmom

I can understand how you might feel that way, dear Pup (peace to you!). Hopefully, you can understand how lies about God and Christ feel rather saddening to some of us.

Peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama, who hopes you don't account to God you observe in man...

Justmom that was a great post. I am with Ataloa. I love it when you speak out.

Peace to you,
tammy