xjwsforChrist

You run from him and he pursues you and will never cease. You are Israel.



You have led yourself to every destination while deluding yourself into believing you were led there by God. That's what I tried to teach you, but I was met with hostility and obstinance. As long as you believe you are being led by God you will continue to travel farther away from where you are supposed to be. Every step you take forward will just be one more you need to take back the other way.



The Son is God, the Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last.



Back to where they came from. Yes, I am referring to who I previously mentioned. Dozens of people have taken the time to stop what they were doing and try to help you. They want you to wake up and they took the time to try. God pursues you, Shelby, and He comes in many forms.



You are supposed to be in the Kingdom of God (you were for a long time), but you have strayed very far from that protective Force. Until you return you will continue to be missed by all who knew you as a servant of the Lord, God.



This is extremely dangerous black and white thinking and I invite you to reread it.



You are very hung up on names which don't mean anything. I don't use the name Elohim very often and that's because it's only a description of God rather than an official name. I prefer the identification "Lord" and "God" personally, because it accurately depicts the truth that there is only One God. That God CANNOT be described by a name, it's impossible. That doesn't mean that God-Names are useless, they just have limits.



I don't say that you are a tool of the devil, Shelby. I think your voice is your extremely powerful intellect manifesting in a unique way. I have tried to get you to understand this truth, but you are too comfortable with believing you are nothing and deserving of nothing. That is not something that God would ever teach you. The second you acknowledge the truth that YOU are the source of the voice in your head, you will then have to take responsibility for it. So far you are unwilling to meet that challenge.



You are avoiding His commission for you in the same way that Jonah did. Eventually the bad things in your life will pile up so high and the collateral damage will be so great that you will cast yourself into the sea. I hope that this will be the case because it will mean you are beginning to actually heed God's calling for you. I know you see yourself as perfectly blessed, but so do Jehovah's Witnesses who writhe in their own misery with smiles.



By saying you follow the Lamb wherever he goes you are claiming to be of God's chosen and faithful 144,000. This would mean that you hold Revelation as a prophecy FOR YOU. Do you realize this? Do you understand the responsibility that you have? You talk a big talk, but you don't walk a big walk. Matthew 24 says that even the elect will be misled in the last days. This describes you to a tee.



Shelby has a crutch and she needs to break it in two and throw it in the garbage. People who lean on crutches don't have faith in God, they have faith in their crutch. It's time to take off the training wheels and do what she was born to do. It will be difficult in the beginning for her. The 3rd Hexagram speaks about a depressing end to those who choose to give into their own fear rather than press forward and get what needs to be done, done.



Everything in this physical life is a struggle in the beginning, we all are painfully aware of this truth. Shelby simply folds her hands and gives up on this struggle and everybody around her weeps "tears of blood". Because it doesn't have to be that way, she CAN rise to the occasion, if she doesn't it's her own fault. Pride comes before a fall.



Hello JustMom, thanks for the reply. Christ said before Abraham "I AM." John 1:1 states that the Word was with God in the Beginning. Christ has always been with all of humanity. He has a presence for every nation, people, tribe and tongue. He doesn't leave anybody out. So when you say "Christ is the only way" you should intuitively know that what it really says is, "Truth is the only way." That verse doesn't make Christianity the superior religion with the superior deity. It shows us all that Christ is universal and permeates all of existence. He is Truth. This means that there are MANY ways of which humanity communicates with God. Truth is in all religion, not just one and religious methods are plentiful. That's a good thing and it proves that God is Love.

-Sab

I don't understand what you're getting at, Shel. "In effect" is just a way of speech. I did read what you wrote. I didn't realise you wanted a full response.

I do not hear things in words as you do. Well, having said that, as I said once way back in the autumn, once, just once, just before a very traumatic time of my life I actually did, and I have never forgotten it. I think I said that here (or rather on madmoose) but I have not and don't now choose to give the circumstances as they are highly personal and would identify me, which I do not choose to do on a public forum.

My "in effect" was completely appropriate...and I think here we may have another difference between American and English, or rather, British ways of talking. God did NOT speak to me in words, which would have made my "in effect" indeed as you describe, but with a very very strong inner feeling and through events and other people's actions. Thus, it was "in effect" rather than in reality, but I recognised it as such at the time and have never failed to own it.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, as I don't think you understood the reality of what I wrote. Once more, as I said a day or so ago, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. I am a writer, among many other things. Thus, I choose my words and sentence structure very carefully.



I think that perhaps by now you are beginning to understand better, so I'll continue with your quote. You then went on to say



Good! I'm glad! Phew! You had me worried there for a moment!



I didn't say it because that wasn't the way it was, as I explained above! Do you understand now? That occasion long ago, nearly thirty years ago, was different, and if I were narrating that then I would speak of it perhaps as you do, but I am not narrating that. I see what is happening here. To different nationalities we have to add different writing styles. You are concerned with total accuracy and truth, I acknowledge that, and so am I, and I think you acknowledge that in me. I think, despite what anyone else may think or say, that you and I actually understand each other very well indeed. So here, in the example abovoe, I inserted "perhaps" in "I would speak of i6t perhaps as you do". As I wrote it I notied what i was doing, asked myself if it was an unnecessary qualificati0on, and immediately understood that my instinct was right, I DO mean perhaps. I don't KNOW that I would speak of it as you do, because I don't KNOW exactloy what you would say under a given circumstance, do I?

You see, I wrote "in effect" because that was correct, totally, 100% accurate. It was indeed "in effect". YOU might say "God said" but in all honesty i couldn't say that. I actually believe he did. He had allowed me to go as far as I did with the JW's leaving the decision to me, and at the last minute I saw just what it would mean, pictorially, like a gulf yawning before me, a chasm across which it would be much more difficult to come back.

You see, I KNOW what I understand and believe with all my heart and soul. YOU think I am in error. But I fully believe in One God in Three Persons, the father who made everything that was and is and will be, the Son who is of the same substance of the father, and coeternal with Him, and the Holy Spirit, who breathes in them and in us and who gives us gifts and the inspiration (literally) such as we have; and in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, founded by Christ and given in charge to the Apostlles who faithfully, throuugh many trials, brought it to where it is now through the continual passings on of the Spirit.

I knew that if I went ahead with the false baptism of the JW's it would be the most terrible sin, an affront to God, a denial of Him and of His Son, the ultimate disobedience, and I knew absolutely for sure that it really, really mattered. Up until that point I was telling myself that it was OK, God was God and I could serve him among the JW's. Suddenly, as if in a blinding flash, but not a real audible physical flash, I saw, and knew and understood. Absolutely no way I was going to disobey God. No way.

There is a lot more to it as well but it is personal. That is more than enough for here, because of course I am aware that you don't and won't recognise the validity of my understanding, because yours is different. I do NOT criticise yours, Shelby. I am very aware that in all the vastness of God's Creation he has placed different people in different places and different walks of life and with different gifts. You are doing what you believe is yours to do. I am doing what I know is mine to do.

I'd like to write more here in answer to your question, but I don't want to bore you rigid nor antagonise you by holding my own beliefs so firmly, which I do. (It's a daily joy to me to know that I am back now where God always intended me to be.)

Who knows what the future holds? I trust him.

So, in sum, why did I use the words "in effect"? Because that is exactly what it was. In effect.

One more thing: A little way above this, Tec wrote that you were trying to get me to acknowledge that I hear God, or Christ, I forget which she said. That was a very interesting and strange statement, not only that she should have spoken on your behalf, though that too is strange and unusual, for we do not need an interpreter and if you have something you wish to say to me you have only to say it or ask, whichever is appropriate. It was also strange, because I have been perfectly open (in earlier days on madmoose) as to the extent of my experience and knowledge in this area.

In addition, I had shared with you about my friend in London (actually this too when I first came to this forum, but I think it went unnoticed then and I couldn't now say in which discussion any of these things were.) I am very aware of the channelling in which she takes part. The results are remarkable but I have a very open and undecided mind as to exactly what is going on there. On balance, I don't think it is from God. I won't say that categorically, because I will not judge. But personally, I do not pay it attention. it is just something she does. Not at my request. The one thing that most surprises me in all that you say is that you don't acknowledge that prayer, of the kind that I described in all its broad depth and richness, including silent contemplation, is talking and listening to God. I say it is, and I say that at that level you and I share a similar experience, different in circumstance and detail but nonetheless similar in kind. To me, it is all prayer. To you, it isn't. maybe you're right. Maybe it's not prayer for you. But it jolly well is for me.

The astonishing thing to me is that you don't accept that. But I am not troubled by that fact, because either you will, or you won't, and it is out of my hands. On balance, I think that eventually you may, but if not, then not, and it also may be just words that get in the way, and the fraility of my human understanding.

There. I think that answers you! No need for anyone to tell me what you are trying to do. All you have to do is say!

One more thing, as I re-read this and ponder...noticing also Justmom's lovely post above! I do like your posts, Justmom! I don't always agree with everything, but I recognise the goodness of your heart! Anyway, one more thing...what was it?...there is one more reason why I didn't write all of this before. Well, several! I did not, of course, realise that you needed the fullest possible response, nor that what I said hadn't been properly understood, but most of all, you know, is natural English reticence. By and large, (there's that instinctive wish to qualify again, not because it isn't true or openly admitted, but from a wish to be accurate)...by and large, then, we British, English, Irish, Scots and Welsh, tend to be reticent, tend not to go into great detail about feelings, tend not to spell everything out. We understate rather than overstate. That's an important thing, maybe, for Americans to recognise.

I have a great friend, a Franciscan nun, who spent some time in San Francisco. She wasn't very happy. Americans used to come up to her and hug her and say sympathetically and kindly "I know how you feel." It exasperated her! She said to me "How could they know how I felt! Only I know how I felt!" And of course, just as they were being genuinely kind, she was genuinely frustrated, realis8ing they were being kind but thoroughly disliking being hugged by strangers!

Don't worry, all you demonstrative Americans. That friend of mine is especially English in her reticence! Not every English person is going to dislike being hugged!

It was in response to dear Sab's comments to me, dear Char (peace to you!), as what that entire post. You weren't addressed in it anywhere, by me. Unless you serve the same god as dear Sab (peace!)... which I don't think you do. I mean, you COULD serve "Elohim", I don't know. But the emissaries he speaks of are atheists (at least, the ones he previously identified claim to be so)... so his comment on that is even more confusing.

Please know, though, had I meant to include you I would have addressed you specifically and given you a greeting of peace, my dear! That's why I post as I do: so that confusion as to who "said" what and to whom is minimized.

I hope that helps and, again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

My comment was directed to Sab... in regard to his claim to give someone a taste of their own medicine. Setting aside any question of the right to do that or not, it can only be done if it IS the same medicine. I merely tried to highlight the difference between the two approaches. One was not a rebuke... the other was a rebuke. So not the same medicine at all.

I know that you and Shelby do not need an interpreter, and I did not attempt to be one for you in my comment to Sab.

But when something becomes a personal rebuke that is close or IS an attack, then I can delete it if it goes against the forum rules, or I can try to help highlight the difference in continued discussion.


Peace,
tammy

Hugs back to you Sab.



I have not created a personality for you, love. Some were surprised by your comments here. I was not. They were pretty right on target for you lately, imho.



We are supposed to be slow to anger, because often... what we allow ourselves to become angry OVER... is not something we are right to be angry over. Then, in our misplaced anger (that comes from envy or jealousy or fear or whatever... the truth of which we cover over by lying to ourselves)... then we sin against others.

I am certainly not going to say that I have never spoken in anger... but I can state that most often what is spoken in anger, could have been said much better and in a more compassionate way (if something should have been said at all)

But again... I have seen your full range of behavior and emotions, lol... if you might recall some of our past exchanges, public and private ; )




This is a fair point, and love would have me give you the benefit of the doubt, in stating instead that what you posted did not sound as though it was coming from a place of love... regardless of tone, though. Just by content. One does not slap someone down and seek to put them in their place, especially when they do not have the knowledge to know where that place should be. Many people considered your comment a personal attack, Sab. That does not make it so, but it might give you pause to re-examine what you said AND the place from which you said it.

I have no reason to doubt that you think it came from a place of love.

But Sab, again... you are trying to get someone who hears from Christ and listens to what He says and teaches... to deny Christ in favor of what those who do not hear Him (by their own words) have to say about them, about Him, and about His teachings.

That does not make any sense.


If hearing Christ comes from listening to Christ... and not these countless other methods... why would someone change and adopt a method that does not hear Him, and in some cases (as in the people you suggest that some listen to instead of him), results in a denial of Him?



Agreed... if that "crutch" is anything other than Christ. Who is the ROCK, the cornerstone, the foundation, the Truth, the Image, the Word, and the one to whom the Father says to listen TO... that His Body is built upon. Faith in Christ IS faith in His Father.


Peace to you,

tammy

Thank you for your kind response Sab.....

Yes I do agree with John 1:1 as CHRIST being here before Abraham in this context.
I understand and agree as well that CHRIST is the only way and that he IS the Truth.

But I would have to disagree with you in that although there may be many " truths" in religion, it does not make them " THE TRUTH". Containing truths that appeal to sheep is how sheep become misled, lost, scattered and abused by " the wolves in sheeps covering."

It is these "truths" that appear to be " the light" As CHRIST...is how they are able to " mislead chosen/ elect ones." Matthew 24:24
But in reality they are " false Christs/ false lights/ false truths

If " truth " that exists in all religions was something that was acceptable to Jah, why did Jah eventually tell His people that their house had been abandoned to them, and destroy his own beloved city's temple and form of worship? Why if truth even some was there?

And then tell us that NOW he would not dwell in hand- made temples because of its wickedness.
And that John 4: 23&24 tells us

" Jah is a spirit and those worshiping would worship in spirit and TRUTH. For indeed, the Father is LOOKING FOR SUCHLIKE ONES"...,
Why the need to be looking for suchlike ones if true Truth was EVERYWHERE is EVERY religion.

Why the strong admonition in Revelation 18:4 ". To Get OUT of her, my people so that you do not share with her in hers sins and receive her plagues."

Why get out of " her"? If truth is in ALL religions?

YES Jah is Love...... I couldn't agree with you more but.....
Still doesn't mean truth is everywhere as in "THE TRUTH". CHRIST!

...Is why Isaiah 59:1-15 tells us ". That TRUTH ( CHRIST ) proves to be missing."
A reason....

Isa 59:13 rebellion and treachery against the LORD, turning our backs on our God, inciting revolt and oppression, uttering lies our hearts have conceived.

Isa 59:14 So justice is driven back, and righteousness stands at a distance; truth has stumbled in the streets, honesty cannot enter.

Isa 59:15 Truth is nowhere to be found, and whoever shuns evil becomes a prey. The LORD looked and was displeased that there was no justice.

Isa 59:14 Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands far away; for truth has stumbled in the public squares, and uprightness cannot enter.


Isa 59:15 Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey. The LORD saw it, and it displeased him [fn] that there was no justice.


Pretty strong pronouncement on Gods people that were in a covenant with Him.
And the same is true for our day. Is'nt what is written, written as a warning and example for OUR DAY!

So for ME personally I must continue to follow the lead of my Lord and master as The ONLY Truth and not through any other means or entity.

Thanks you in advance for hearing although I understand there may be disagreements.

Love to you all
Justmom

If you're speaking of your god, perhaps he still pursues me, dear Sab (peace to you!), but he will cease. One day. If you're speaking of my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), then I have nothing to worry about, nor do you. Because if that One has not already (though I know he has), he WILL find and 'catch' me. I have absolutely NO doubt about that. So, there is no NEED for me to "turn" anywhere, is there?



Well, then, please... feel free to leave me to myself. I hereby relieve YOU of any responsibility you think YOU have... and put it solely upon my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)to teach me. By means of God's spirit and blood, holy spirit. Really, I'm good with that, so please consider yourself "loosed" as to any responsibility to teach me. I set you free from that "obligation." Go, expend your very precious time and skills on someone (more) deserving. Please.



(Smile) Yes, but not in the way you may think. He IS "Zaph'enathpane'Jah", yes, and so the Revealer of Secrets. And my God, yes, to the extent he is the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit. He is not the Father, however, HIS God, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies. Or even if he was, HIS instruction to ME... is that the Father is above him, greater than him, and solely to be worshipped. Say, though, he IS the ALmighty God, as you wish me to believe: is not OBEYING better than sacrifice? Would he not rather me do as he SAYS... than as my own understanding... or that of others might lead me to DO?

You have so much to learn, yet, dear Sab. SO much. Unfortunately, I cannot teach it to you; I can only tell you about the One who can... Whom you overlook. Much like the WTBTS. They completely overlook HIM... in trying to "see" God. You see him AS "God." In doing do, YOU negate the glory of the MOST HOLY One of Israel. That isn't our task. Our task is to OBEY the Father... and glorify the Son... while obeying the SON... and glorifying the Father.

Some others go even further, and throw in a third "person", which dilutes both the Father AND the Son, who is the Holy Spirit that some give yet another personage to.

Do as you will; I, though, will obey the One sent to lead ME, as a child of Israel, yes.




Oh, good gracious, Sab. NOW you want me to believe that He comes in the form of atheists?? Not that I have anything against atheists, but you wish me to believe that atheists are trying to help lead me to God? I mean, I know I'm not the BRIGHTEST crayon in the box, but this is classic "Sabatious" speak. Yet, you wonder why no one listens to you. This comment should stop you from wondering, dear one. It makes it VERY clear.



Sigh. When, dear one, was I "in" the kingdom... and when did I "leave"... and how? Please, explain. For those here who might want to know what you mean, if not me.

As to my statement that:

Those "emissaries", whom you named... don't even believe in God OR Christ, dear one. Nor do you, I think. So, if what you state is true, I am left with no choice but to assume you ALL "work" for another shepherd... and god. In which case, I MUST rebuke him (which sometimes means you receive HIS rebuke, yes!).

You state:

This is extremely dangerous black and white thinking and I invite you to reread it.

I have. And I stand by it, to the extent what you stated means what it purports to.



Okay. So I'm hung up on names. Means something to ME... and to the God and Christ I serve. So...



Okay, your choice. I leave you to it. I don't accost you or what you teach/believe in. Because I don't care (although I know how that truth piques your ire). To his/her own master each one will stand... or fall. I leave you to yours... and would consider it a great service if you would leave me to mine.



Your opinion... and you are absolutely entitled to it. As I am to mine... and I disagree with yours.



God didn't teach me this truth, dear Sab, nor did Christ. It's what that "intellect" has allowed me to conclude, based on the evidence given ME. It is the result of TRULY rational thinking: I KNOW what I know... and what *I* don't. For me to take credit for what you apparently wish me to... would be lying. And thus intellectually dishonest." Not just intellectually, but consciously. Because I KNOW it's a lie.

Now, I COULD lie to you and others and say, "Hey, look what I know because I"... what, thought (of) it? But that's not the case. So, why lie to you folks? Why not simply admit the TRUTH - that it was given to me... any by Whom? I don't fear you or your opinion of me. So why lie TO you?

But that's the thing isn't it? Mankind... and PARTICULARLY Israel... WANTS to be lied to. Indeed, man will take the lie over the truth ANY time? I mean, why do think a woman asks "Does my butt look fat in these pants?" What do you think she WANTS you to say? She KNOWS the answer (whether yes or no), but it's not about that truth - it's about what YOU will say about it!



If you say so, luv. I am sure I don't take enough responsibility for what I hear, at least as to giving the proper credit/responsibility to its Source. As for the "challenge"... you are entirely right. Problem is... YOU don't see the real challenge... and IT's source. You might try reading the book of Job, though, as it MIGHT give you a clue. It also might not. Depends on whether you are also given eyes to SEE the truth... FROM the Truth.



What, you mean as to Nineveh? Oh, you have NO idea, luv. None whatsoever. My Lord and I have already discussed that assignment and it's well under way, make no mistake. Sadly, I am unable to share the details of that with you, although I once thought I would do so.



Yikes! Well, then, where is YOUR love... YOUR prayer... YOUR wish for peace for ME... as I always offer to YOU... such that this does NOT occur in my life? Is not your Elohim merciful? If not, why in the WORLD would I want to serve him? My God, however, has been, is, and will continue to be merciful with YOU... and BLESS your life. Because I will ask Him to, THROUGH His Son, my Lord. Indeed, I just did... and that He not hold anything you've have against ME... against YOU.



Then you don't know me at all. Blessed, yes. Perfectly? Far from it. Won't ever happen, while in this vessel. Looking FORWARD to it? You betcha. Aren't you? Why not?



So do many, including perhaps yourself. But we won't know truly, will we... until what is destined to come to pass comes to pass. In the meantime, I just keep seeking the kingdom... and IT'S righteousness... not MINE. Which righteousness is shown to us by Christ. And I'm okay with that.



Ummmmm... not necessarily. I mean, I am Israel, yes, of BenJahmin. But those of the nations called to be kings and priests ALSO follow the Lamb, dear one. Indeed, they, TOO, hear his voice:

"I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. John 10:16

So, I COULD also be of them. Either is fine with me. Indeed, being a least SERVANT of any of these is fine with me. Chamber pot emptier, I'm okay with. So long as I am IN the house... and at the table... I truly don't care WHERE. Last seat is fine with me. It's still in the house... versus in the "darkness" outside.



I hold the Revelation as to those to whom it was written: Christ's slaves. Since I identify myself as one, then, yes, it has meaning for me. And, yes, I do understand the "responsibility" I have... which has been given me by my Lord. And I have, thus far, worked in fulfillment of that assignment. Might I beg off? Sure! I MIGHT. I mean, Peter literally denied my Lord. So, sure, I could do so, too. If I do, I can only throw myself on JAH's mercy to understand why it was that I did. Since He is merciful, I have NO doubt that He and my Lord will forgive me, as they forgave Peter. Because just as with Peter, it would only be fear of man that would cause me to do so.

Now, what YOU are trying to GET me to do (but won't succeed)... is blaspheme, dear one... by taking glory AWAY from the Holy Spirit, Christ. Won't happen, dear one. Sorry. I very well might sin against God and Christ in other ways, but not that one. Because regardless of what you and some others might THINK... I KNOW it's a lie.



You have no idea of my walk, dear Sab. What you know of me you know via a few posts on a couple of internet sites. Lengthy posts, sometimes, true, but that's all you have. So, I COULD say "You don't know Jack" and that would be more true and false.



What it says might describe me, yes... but what YOU'VE stated is not what it says, dear one. Please... read it again. And take note of the words "IF possible." Perhaps it will be possible in my case. But... perhaps not. We'll have to wait and see, won't we?



I'm going to leave the rest to you and dear tec, dear 'Mom (peace to you, both!) and/or others to discuss, if any care to. It's moot, as far as I'm concerned, and even if not, I believe it inappropriate for me to comment on it. Except for the part about Christ and Truth. I find these comments curious:



The "Christ" that said that is the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah). Yet, most religions don't acknowledge or even recognize him, let alone know him. Even if we were to use the name most attribute to him ("Jesus"), many religions, and two in particular... don't recognize, acknowledge, or know hiim. How can a religion NOT acknowledge, recognize, or know the very One that is truth... and NOT be in opposition TO that Truth? He certainly didn't smile upon the Jewish system, but condemned it.

Truth IS universal and permeates all of existence, dear Sab. That is not the issue. The issue is that MOST... including you... don't REALLY know Who he is... OR Who he came forth FROM.

So, okay, moving on. Before I do, can we agree to disagree... and leave one another to our own beliefs, right or wrong? You are MORE than welcome to PM others or address what you think I am "doing" wrong as to them... TO them. But please... leave me be? You don't understand who "sent" you... and why. I DO understand, though, and sadly, recognize your "master." I don't want to issue YOU a rebuke, though, so, if you would be so kind, just tell "him" I said he can "get behind me." Because his attempts to get me to "be kind" to MYSELF... aren't going to work.

I hope you can accommodate me, here... because I TRULY do not wish to be "at war" with YOU. So, let's NOT do this, but simply respect one another's differing beliefs, while letting love rule? I can do that. I hope you can.

Again, peace to you and your dear household!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Shelby, if you read my post above again, you'll see that I was indeed answering your remarks and questions of me, particularly since it was prefaced by "dear Char" in particular, where you asked me, presumably because you wanted to know, "why did you negate that GOD told you something by adding the words "in effect"? You then said, "I await your comment, please, and thank you in advance."

I think you'll agree that that is clearly directed to me, since the words were mine and not Sab's, and you asked very clearly, as I've quoted above, that I should explain it to you.

So, I obliged.

No, it wasn't clear to me that every bit of your preceding post was just for Sab. You used the phrase, obviously to him and others, "you and your fellow emissaries". For all I know you might have been including me in that unknowable group, and that's why, very reasonably, I asked, as I'm sure you can see now that I've explained it as you asked.

Tec, thank you. Yes, you can certainly delete attacks and that would be good. Fortunately, since I haven't attacked anyone, that won't include any of my own posts, though it may make some of my responses to attacking posts less comprehensible since it would mean the deletion of what I was responding to!

Judaism underwent a refining process which is mentioned in Psalms:



"Seven" is a number associated with leadership and that's precisely what Judaism brought to the world: human and spiritual leadership. The Jews gave us our King who died so that we may have eternal life. History tells of the grave price paid for this King to be brought to power. Just because the Jews gave us Him, however, doesn't automatically mean all other spiritual frameworks are malevolent. The Bible says to test the spirits which implies we will get varying results both good and bad.

What I have found in my study of religion these past few years is that the King that came to us was always here and is everywhere. Christ chose the Jews specifically because they were considered trash. They were thrown away and he built them into a mighty nation that outlasted all it's enemies. The Jews were a stone rejected by the builders which is then made the cornerstone (Psalms 118:22).

When the Book of Matthew says, "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them" it's telling us the nature of the Lord. If a religion gathers together in the name of TRUTH the Lord is with them. Not the name of Elohim, or Yahweh, or Buddha or Confucius or Jah of Armies, but TRUTH. Which would mean the Lord is not only with religion, but also with the Scientific Community. What is required is that we do not work alone, we gather together. Even two people is enough. We are not designed to be alone.

Do not mistake my statement about truth in all religion as a mere platitude. All paths do not lead to the same place. There are, in essence, two paths, one of eternal life and one of eternal judgement and both of them are very long. Yet in all truth there is only one path which is the one you choose.

-Sab

This is why I don't post here anymore, Shelby. You, like a JW, want to make this about Satanic forces. I am going to kindly ask you to stop pulling the devil card. JESUS CHRIST you're trigger happy

The way God is pursuing you is nothing at all like a wild carnivorous animal. To illustrate, I personally love cats and when I see a stray I have a hard time not trying to woo it over to me. Even though I have the best intentions for the furry little thing each step I take in it's direction it will take two steps away and maintain a safe distance. It always ends up in this kind of stand off which results in the animal eventually bolting for the nearest cover. That is how God pursues people. He doesn't trap us in a cage or shoot us with a sleep dart, he merely allows us to continue at our own pace and he simply follows. That's because God has faith in us. He knows the second he catches us and shows us that he just wants to give us a good home with lots of milk and honey that we will stay.



You need to take responsibility for the actions you take. For starters you can stop acting like you have authority to judge people's faith in God. It's extremely ironic that you see yourself with the authority to release ME from MY responsibility. Why not release YOURSELF? You are fully capable it would seem.



Do you realize by saying this you are paying homage to the idea that Egyptian Kings are gods?



Don't you think it's a little weird that your Son of God never grows up and becomes a Father?



If you can't teach me then you couldn't possibly know that I need to be taught.



I never said the atheists were trying to bring you to God. They were trying to bring you to Science because they need scientists and critical thinkers. If you would have listened to them you would be closer to God. It's God working THROUGH the atheists. They don't acknowledge the power God has over them. That just quiets down God in their life, it doesn't cut Him out. That would mean that they have total power over God. Why CAN'T God work through atheists?

By sending atheists at you like torpedoes God is trying to refine you. But you flick them off like dried mucus and put enmity between you and them. You look them in the eye and call them darkness just as you are doing with me now. Is that your commission? To judge harshly?

I have been attending a local church for the past month and a half. It's been a very humbling experience. They are a group of people who listen to and sing with a rock band followed by a brief sermon every Sunday. They are not a harlot who deserves to drink the cup of God's wrath (a double portion even!). They are people gathering together and trying to help their community through their beliefs. It's breathtaking to witness. Church/Fellowship is where we should be and that means finding the right one is an extremely important process.

-Sab

Dear Sab (again, peace to you!), if you choose not to post here anymore (though, the fact that you are posting lately tends to decry that as truth), then that's your choice, dear one. If you decide to stay and continue posting (to me), I will do as I have always done and this is endeavor to share the truth with you. Now, if the Adversary comes up in the conversation, then you can be assured if it's from MY end it's simply because it is the truth and nothing more. No cards, rabbits, moose or squirrels. Absolutely "nuthin' up MY sleeve!



Ummmm... it is true that Paul said Satan is like a lion. However, my Lord is called a lion, as well, is he not? The "Lion of Judah"? So, I'm not sure what YOU have against lions... other than what the WTBTS may have led you to have... but I have nothing against them or anyone being called such.



Please see above. I don't consider lions good OR bad, per se, but just another creation... that serves JAH's pleasure... and purpose. True, they are carnivorous, but they're also pretty powerful. And... they can be loyal.



Then I will look to my Lord to hold me such. But not you, dear one, sorry.



But now, wait: was it not you who took issue with MY faith? Indeed, said I had none? Why is it okay for you? Or is hypocrisy in general just okay for you?



As to me, yes. I do not want you to be burdened as to ME, in any way. So, again, please... do not concern yourself as to me. I am setting you FREE from whatever responsibility you feel you have as to ME. Though, I do think it ironic that you apparently believe YOUR responsibility... is telling me about MY responsibility... yet... But, ho-kay...



Oh, no, dear one. If I could release myself I would not be here bantering with you: I would be TRULY free, even as to the vessel of flesh. But I know that only Christ can release me. And hopefully, one day he will. Until then... here I is. Bantering with you.



I guess that depends on how you're looking at it. From an Egyptian POV, perhaps. From the (ancient) Hebrew POV... not so much. Even so, the word of my Lord to me (and thus, to you) on this is that, yes, Egypt did consider their Pharaohs as gods, because there were none higher in the land (which is WHY Israel was SENT to and so WENT to Pharaoh for grain... when famine came upon the land of Canaan... which was under EGYPTIAN jurisdiction). He said that they knew the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, even before He became the God of Israel... and until the Pharaohs of Moses' day... never thought to make themselves higher than Him. That not only did they have regard for Him... but cared for and fed His people.

So, I'm thinking my "homage" is not being held against me but just be accepted as me being respectful of the one JAH Himself placed in Pharaoh's house (as well as Pharaoh, himself)... and came to be "king" over Israel... Joseph... because he was only able to REVEAL secrets by means of JAH... to Whom he gave the glory.



Who said that? Of course, he does! He is my "father," in that HE is the one who "beget" me by holy spirit. That does not make him THE Father, however, the One from whom ALL life originated, including my Lord's... anymore than it made, say, Isaac, who fathered Jacob/Israel, any greater than Abraham. Or Israel (Jacob), who fathered Judah, any greater than Isaac. And so forth.

Even so, once JAH becomes all things to all... and IN all... it is the Son that rules "forever." For now... and even then.... I will listen TO that Son as to who and what HE is... and who and what the Father is... and how I am to speak of, address, and regard both.



Au contrare! I can't teach you because I am not a teacher, dear one. I am a servant OF a Teacher, though, and so by means of him know that you need to be taught. If you didn't have such need you would have (1) known what I am in this regard, and (2) known the Teacher of whom I speak.



Okay, I misunderstood you (though, I don't think I did, but it's very understandable why IF I did, especially give what you state next). My bad.



Perhaps, but, I don't want to GO (with them OR you).



Okay. Not quite what I understand, but... okay.



Ummmm... I NEVER said He couldn't or didn't. But I think He works through science MORE... than through atheists. I LOVE the science He, through, Christ, is teaching ME, these days. Phenomenal stuff, actually.



Maybe I flick them off... because they're not really torpedoes... but gnats? I mean, c'mon... God has to send more than one "torpedo"... and I'm able to flick His torpedoes OFF? C'mon, now... And who wants to have dried mucus (aka "boogers") hanging on them?



Ummmm... looked WHO in the eye? Exluding perhaps one or two, I've NEVER seen ANY of these folks eye-to-eye, nor they me. And the two I have, we never even had these kinds of discussion. And I haven't called YOU "darkness" at all. Ever. Not even an "offspring of a viper." Because I don't think that of you, but that you are just being used BY the darkness. Now, if you want to say I've insinuated you are a "tool"... well, I won't argue with you much on that.



Well, okay, then! More power TO you, luv! Hopefully, THEY will be able receive your message about/from Elohim. Then you can be happy AND among folks who are suited to your beliefs. Which I don't begrudge you, not one bit! How are they taking your messages so far? Well, I truly hope!



Ummmmm... I don't think "they" are a harlot, anymore than I think JWs are harlots. You, though, misunderstand and misrepresent me. MisLED by harlots, yes. But if they truly belong to God through Christ... then I have absolutely NO doubt that they will LISTEN when they hear the call... and get OUT of whatever sundry harlot they are involved with.



I don't doubt either; however, I am not sure all of your "emissaries" would agree as, unfortunately, they probably also claim to "worship God" in the process. Which the "emissaries" seem to have a problem with.



Funny, I am of the understanding that I and others ARE the church, dear one, and so wherever two or more OF that Body gather IN MY LORD'S NAME... uh-ohhhhh, there goes that whole "name" thing; wonder why he said they would do so in HIS name... if a name wasn't important? I mean, why not just say, "Where two or more are gathered..." and leave it at that? I mean, you think maybe it has something to do with, say, two or more gathering somewhere to, say, build bombs?? Maybe he's not present at ALL "gatherings," then. Makes sense... to ME...)...

... there HE is. Do you think that he gathers in, say, war orientation rooms, where plans and strategies are being discussed... before, during, or after which "God" is prayed to? I mean, since He's universal and everywhere and all roads lead to Him, and... well, you can say what you believe better than I do, so I will leave this part to you.

Again, we should agree to disagree, dear Sab. Truly. I don't think we're going to change one another's mind... or heart... as to these matters... any time soon. What say we take a break... then maybe revisit all of this later, say, early June? I have some "work" to do before then and can't risk anything getting in the way of that.

What say you? No matter. Even if you don't agree, I will have to leave off from the discussion at some point as I don't find it very... enlightening... or in pursuit of God, Christ, or truth, as least as far as the spiritual is concerned.

Peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

I haven't been reading this thread since the title seemed boring to me lol I was curious as to why a thread on "Nazarites" got so much activity

Good lord peoples!!! This is a thread on Nazarites! Lol how could it turn into this???

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Ah, Pup, all things are possible and where Nazarites are concerned they're even more possible!

I see a faithless person who listens to a voice in her head rather than what truly calls her (Romans 1:25) despite that voice being proven errant by several people publicly. Then I see that faithless person browbeating the TRULY faithful on the subject of faith. Then when I stand up against that injustice that person then calls me a hypocrite and a tool of darkness. There are two types of slaves, evil and faithful (Matthew 24:45-51). Shelby! Stop beating slaves or else you will find yourself one day weeping and gnashing your teeth. If you play with fire long enough.... what happens oh wise one?

-Sab

Woah!

Sab!...I think I was the person you stood up for...and thank you again!...but I very very definitely didn't call you a hypocrite and a tool of darkness!

Just so long as you know!