xjwsforChrist

Where have I observed this "logic" being applied? Oh, yes, it was JW's! Pile blame and responsiblity on the child for something that is not, in itself, blameworthy or irresponsible!

That's not "reverse psychology", as Obama called it. That's guilt tripping, among other things. It's also a lie. C'mon, does anyone really believe that the President of the United States and the First Lady of the United States are going to do anything to put a screaming halt to their political careers and social lives just because one of their minor children gets a tattoo? They've struggled so hard to place themselves within a certain middle class and they'd throw it all away just like that?

That's pressure...on the kids. Pressure to be what their parents want them to be, pressure to act only in ways that advance the parental goals. No allowance for individuality, personality, or choices. Tow the line or all is lost and...it's all your fault!

There seems to be a lot of insecurity wrapped up in this "psychology".

One of my favourite sayings when speaking of all things JW is "Pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!"

While piling on the guilt may work, does it actually teach anything other than resentment?

_________________
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.” - Dr Seuss

It teaches that their actions also affects those around them?

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To fear me is to love me....

Not every action affects those around us in a significant way. Even if it did, where is the line between personal choice and concern for the "others"?

If it's something life-threatening, like polluting a drinking water source or mishandling weaponry, ok, consider how the action may affect others, but the small stuff? Nahhhhh...

IMO, it's highly unlikely that either of those girls will be running out and getting a tattoo in the near future (while they are minors *and* being watched 24/7 by Security), but that's not really the issue. The issue is guilting or frightening people into submission to the will (and whim) of another.

Has anyone else heard the JW talk on "JOY?" J = Jehovah, O = Others, U = you. That's the order of consideration when making a decision, no matter how small. In my experience there have been sooooo many others to consider that I never had resources to use for myself. That's abuse.

To teach a child that any action taken must be in accord with the will of another weakens the child. To tell them they will be subject to public humiliation at the hands of their parents for making a personal choice (no matter how ill-advised) is to take away the one source of support they should be able to count on in any situation.

Conditional love...just like JW's.

The tattoo thing. Is something that President Obama said regarding his daughters?
If so, then i think it's mostly tongue in cheek and said in the spirit of fun. I'm not certain that a parallel can be made between what he said and Watchtower beliefs. Denying a child the opportunity or permission to get a tattoo is not denying their individuality. Nothing was mentioned that they couldn't get tattoos only that if they did then mother and father will follow suit. I didn't read anything about conditional love there either.

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... attoo.html

Back later for the rest...

I remember when tattoos used to mean something, now every dickhead has one.
Gay !

LOL... I'm sorry. But if I had been a rebellious teen, then I would have just called that bluff Probably even if I didn't even want a tattoo. I'd just come home from that tattoo parlor, show them the tattoo, and tell them how excited I am for them to get matching ones.

Of course, a tattoo isn't exactly even on the radar of things I would waste time worrying about for my kids.

Peace,
tammy

Well...

And the Obama girls probably feel the same way we all did raised as JWs.
( other than maybe not viewing them as demonized)

THEN...when they get past the guilt, fear, and over worrying abut what people think...
They 'll do exactly what THEY want and mom and dad will not have a say- so anymore.
Sure, mom and dad might be annoyed that mom and dad can't wear tank tops, shorts, anything revealing anymore,
THEN.... They'll get over it and hopefully count their blessings that that is the worst as girls they might DO, and be glad that hopefully they don't have a bunch of grandkids to take care of while in office.

Then, the tattoos will fade into insignificance compared to the real problems in the world.
And hopefully the girls 's tattoos will have a " cool " meaning not just random, LOL


Just my two cents
Been there, raised 3 boys. Now 28 24 (today) and 22
P.s. who by the way the 28 yr old is all tattooed up, 24 not one, the 22 has one on his neck only.
And I have seriously contemplated up til probably last year getting a tattoo myself.

LOL Justmom

Some of my offspring have tattoos. One son, in his thirties, has an artistic creation on his arm, and as far as I know just one daughter, late thirties, has a tattoo, a discreet small flower, placed, as far as I can remember, near her ankle.

If my other sons have them, either I don't know or can't remember! They had them done in late teens or early twenties, I think.

Once upon a time I'd have objected. These days, at least in Britain, I think they're more acceptable, though it certainly isn't something I find attractive, myself.

Son has one or two (can't remember); daughter has 6 (or maybe 8!) all pretty discreet (ankle, lower back above pants line, both arms, leg, foot. As a mom, I kinda understand the "concern" as to a daughter. But, hey, she was grown and it was her body. She did scare the HECK out of me once, though. At 16, she came home one day and said, VERY ominously, "Mom, sit down. We gotta talk."

OMG. My knees almost buckled. I mean, I KNEW this girl, right?? My mind was screaming, "OH NO! When did she have time, when could she have... WHEN... WHERE... WHO ('cause I was unaware of any boyfriend)!!?? But... I stayed calmed, maintained, and just mildly said, "Sure, Sweetie, what's up?"

She started with something like, "Well, Mom, I have something to tell you and you're not gonna like it."

Oh, no. No, no, no, no, NO! NO, DON'T tell me this!!

Then she raised up her shirt and showed me a navel ring.

I about lost it right there. NOT in a bad way... I was about to cry, yes, but tears of JOY! A NAVEL ring?? Is THAT all?? (Happy dance and several, MANY "Hallelujahs!" going on inside!).

"Oh, honey, look at that! It's CUTE! Did it hurt?"

And the conversation continued from there. As dear 'Mom (peace, luv!) stated, it could have been SO much worse! By the time she got her first tattoo... I was like, "Whatever, girl."

She's almost 36 and still no kids. I sometimes wonder how much I had to do with that? I mean, if she was nervous to tell me she had her navel pierced...

Peace... and parents have SO much more to worry about with kids than tattoos.

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

If you all were still going to the KH when your daughter was 16 and she didn't get blabbed on she was lucky! You know, one of her teenage friends she shows the tattoo too and then she goes to her folks (dad could just possibly be an elderJ) then the both of y'all are called to the backroom !!

Now that I think back on the timing, she MAY have been 17-18, dear Miz Shirl (hey, girl, and peace to you, luv!). Even so, she hung out with a group of JW kids (girls and boys) who had already seen through the JW melarkey, and so would have never ratted one another out. There are 9 girls and they are all still friends to this day! One has gone back "in" - she now has 4 boys and her husband is not a JW (VERY "worldly", actually) so she wants her family's help raising them. But she still hangs out with the group and supports all of my daughter's performances. About 10 years or so ago, they ALL got the infinity symbol tattooed on their lower backs to represent the "timeline" of their friendship and love for each other.

These are remarkable young ladies and were GOOD kids - a piercing would have been their worse "sin." They didn't have much respect for the kids who lived double lives (i.e., sleeping around, then crying "rape", or doing/selling drugs while pretending to "pioneer", etc.)... or the parents that forced them to (usually elders/MSs and/or their "pioneer" wives - the typical "preacher's" kids).

Okay, movin' on...

Peace, chile'!

Shellama, on her own...

Where we live, tattoos are very common. Not your motorcyce gang styles, but the young hipster crowd. It is not uncommon to see women with full sleeve tattoos. Of course they wear retro clothes as well, and its a pretty cool combination. For men and women here they tend to be very arty rather than those awful green ones that look like they were done with a hammer and nail in the back shed.

I remember once when we were growing up in NZ we had a Chinese homestay with us for a couple of weeks. In the city one day we were having lunch and there was this big burly Maori guy sitting across from us, and on his bulging bicep there was a Chinese character. They were popular at the time. They normally said something like 'strength' or 'honour' or something like that. We asked our homestay what this one meant, and she burst out laughing. The character he had on his arm meant 'kitchen' LOL.

If I was ever going to get one, I think I would get one of those ones that can only be seen under a blacklight.

_________________
“Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don’t matter, and those who matter don’t mind.” - Dr Seuss

OK, back again! Thank you all for your insight and comments.

The thing that was upsetting me about the tattoo story was the sheer idiocy of thinking that getting a tattoo was a bad thing, then, if the kids did it anyhow, going ahead and doing it even though you (the parents) said it was bad!

I'll leave it at that since the thread took another direction.

BTW, my two boys (long since grown) both have tattoos. I don't know if any of the girls do. Since they aren't anything horrible (to me) I wasn't really upset when I found out (they showed me). I wouldn't do it, but they're not me!

AB