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 Post subject: "Not in the Sanctuary"
PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:15 pm 
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May you all have peace... and no need to respond - just sharing an interesting experience that really doesn't have a response, I don't think. At least, not one any different than we all pretty much already know. But I have been meaing to share this with you all since returning from my young cousin's funeral, and have now just remembered to do so.

As some of you may have read me share, my maternal family is devout Lutheran, VERY "religious" (we have a family church!). While my cousin does not regularly attend church in NYC she does have one she calls hers and attends from time to time (when "down home," everyone goes to the family church... 'cept me, of course. Ah, well...).

Anyway, her son's father (they were never married) is a Baptist... and when my young cousin was born was "christened" in his father's church (St. Paul's Baptist - remember the name, as I think it's significant) by his father's pastor. And so, of course, his father wanted the funeral service to be held at his church with the eulogy done by his pastor. No problem... right? Nope. Problem.

Apparently, although he was CHRISTENED in the church, in the "sanctuary," it was not permissible for his FUNERAL to be held in the sanctuary. Because... as the pastor informed my cousin... he was "illegitimate." Yes, dear ones, apparently, it doesn't matter to THIS church whether the individual himself has been dedicated... or even come to... "God" - if his PARENTS weren't married (THEIR choice, NOT his!) the service could not be held in the church proper, but only in a smaller off-room... or "chapel". (Yes, eyebrows raised and eyes WIDE open, here!)

Of course, my cousin... and aunts/other cousins... were furious. And afterward, it was repeatedly (and loudly) pointed out by the aunts that he had been CHRISTENED there... almost 19 years ago. But the response was that the pastor had "a board of directors to answer to." (Ummmmm... what? But YOU'RE the pastor... right??). It was even more difficult for my cousin when the child's father insisted that his pastor give the eulogy, even if the service couldn't be held in the "sanctuary." My cousin acquiesced as to the eulogy but refused to have the service in the church at all.

And so the service was held at the funeral home (over 350 people attended - it was standing room only, as this young man was much loved... and his death wasn't the result of a drive-by, gang violence, etc. Even the nurses and two doctors from three hospitals attended, as well as a representative from the Make-A-Wish foundation).

It was very hard for my cousin, as while the service was beautiful (there was a beautiful video montage put together by his friends that was very moving (his older brother, who had "manned up" and been quite stoic up to that point, finally let it out)... and at one point we ALL sang "Oh, Happy Day" - you really couldn't help it!)... she had a difficult time that this same man was the man who would not eulogize her son in the church in which he had been christened as a baby. It just didn't make sense to her... or my aunts (who were utterly "disgusted" and kept saying so - LOLOL!).

Personally, I just couldn't grasp how it mattered... without my young cousin himself actually denying [belief in] God and/or Christ. Which wasn't the case, I DO know. I mean, if he was good enough to be eulogized in the chapel... why NOT in the sanctuary? Aren't BOTH rooms in the same building? And if he was good enough to be christened (and so welcomes as a child of a member of that church) in the sanctuary, how was he not good enough to be sent off as a child of a member of that church? And most on my mind: I wonder how that would have affected HIS belief in God/Christ, as a young man... had it been someone HE knew and loved... that was denied the sanctuary for THEIR funeral.

It reminded of the whole WTBTS... where an elder can marry an unbaptized couple... but just not in the KH. Or the LDS', where only those well-connected can have their wedding in the big fancy "temple" over here in Oakland (ya'll should SEE that edifice and compound!! You can glimpse it here:

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_California_Temple

But you gotta be WELL connected to get married in one of these! Meaning, not just ANY member's child but the child(ren) of [a] BISHOP(s) or something (at least, according to a co-worker I once had, some 20+ years ago, who WAS married there back then - it was a HUGE deal at work!). Actually, you have to be "worthy" to even ENTER one of their temples:

http://mormon.org/faq/topic/temples/que ... 29044450:s

Quote:
"In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a temple is a building dedicated to be a House of the Lord, and considered by church members to be the most sacred structures on earth. Upon completion, temples are usually open to the public for a short period of time (an "open house"), and then each is dedicated as a "House of the Lord," after which only members in good standing are permitted to enter. Thus, they are not churches or meetinghouses, but rather specialized places of worship."

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of ... day_Saints


SOoooooo.. what happened to the whole "God DOESN'T dwell in HANDMADE temples" as stated by Paul and recorded at Acts 17:24 thing? Nevermind. BTW, did ya'll know there are denominations WITHIN the Mormon church? I mean, I knew there were sects, but not individuals denominations:

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_temples

And did you know, they have some pretty fantastic "temples"??

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_templ ... day_Saints

And I thought the one up the hill from me was pretty "grand." Goodness ME... I can just see Christ hanging out in one of those! No mangers/inns, these. Wait... they even have a "Holy of Holies" (or "Most Holy")!

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinance_room#Holy_of_Holies

Yet, JAH is the HOLY of Holies... or MOST Holy!

"I did not see a temple in the city, because JaHVeH God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. Revelation 21:22

Earthling man. Go figure. But I digress.

Anyway, some things just don't make NO dang sense. NO dang sense. What did it matter? And to whom... except a human "board of directors"... and possibly some self-righteous, judgmental, even hypocritical congregation members?

Maybe it will make my cousin go "hmmmmm" enough to consider dealing with Christ without her religion as a mediator. Maybe not, though. Again, these were Baptists... and she/my family is Lutheran.

Anyway, just wanted to get this off my mind... and heart... somewhat... and so thought this a good place to do that.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar, wondering what some folks think was the POINT of the curtain before the sanctuary and Holy of Holies in the temple at Jerusalem... being ripped in two...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:55 pm 
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Thanks for sharing this Shelby.

Not surprised at all,

Our lord knew what he was saying when he said to " Get out of her!"

ALL of her!!! ALL of religion!!!

She's a " Hot mess!".... That whore,

Love to you ( and I'm sorry the family had to experience this)
Justmom


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:49 am 
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No worries, dear 'Mom (peace, luv!): all went well and all is as well as can be expected for now. But thanks for responding (wink!).

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:56 am 
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Quote:
as the pastor informed my cousin... he was "illegitimate


The church,the board of directors and the pastor are illegitimate..
You could fire a cannon at the bunch of them and not hit a single Christian..
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What a nasty thing to do to a grieving family..
................................Image...OUTLAW

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 11:56 am 
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I agree dear Sheriff,

Where is the compassion, forgiveness, LOVE, empathy, kindness, mercy???

Truly not fruitages our Lord and master displayed for people!

"By their fruits you will RECOGNIZE them!"

Love Justmom g:)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:25 pm 
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OUTLAW wrote:
Quote:
as the pastor informed my cousin... he was "illegitimate


The church,the board of directors and the pastor are illegitimate..
You could fire a cannon at the bunch of them and not hit a single Christian..
Image


What a nasty thing to do to a grieving family..
................................Image...OUTLAW


Got it in one, Outlaw!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 12:50 pm 
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I`m thinking maybe the grieving family didn`t take the right approach..

We could Make an Exception..
With this Much Money!!..

ImageImage

......................................Image...OUTLAW

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:52 pm 
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Just deplorable behaviour. So sorry your cousin had to deal with this Shelby.


Loz x

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:23 pm 
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OUTLAW at his best! ::)) ::)) ::))
Interestingly it is the same ith illegitimate children and the Orthodox church here in Greece. But As OUTLAW pointed out as long as the green stuff flows you can have anything you like. It is all about money nowadays and no one cares about such issues anymore.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:34 pm 
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Frankly, I just don't get it (peace and thank you, to you, all!). I mean, I do get it, of course, when I look at it in the "light" of religion (those in religion, i.e., those who have a FORM of godly devotion... which form proves false to the POWER [of that "devotion"]. Indeed, things like this always remind me of what the Prophets said... about the "priests" and leaders, etc., .. and how even JAH's own people LOVE it (this unloving, hypocritical melarkey!).

But I truly DON'T get it... in the Light of Christ. Sorry, but I don't see Christ in such a position, from the pastor OR the Board (or any members that would go along with it and not call for either to be removed! Well, no, maybe I do, having once been a victim of fear as to certain religious leaders - don't go rockin' the boat, and all... praise JAH THAT came to an end!).

But I truly don't get those who think it's okay... who allow it... particularly the pastor... who's only excuse was that he had to answer to a Board of Directors. What about GOD?? Christ?? Isn't THAT who he's SUPPOSED to be answering to?? I don't get it... in the sense that I would have to actually consider that such a person is actually joined to Christ. HOW?? Where is the FRUIT of God's holy spirit that so JOINED him? Surely, through that spirit Christ would have MANIFESTED love...

Ah, well... what can you say/do? Other than folks don't just need to get out... but really need to RUN out. Else, how are they going to account for CONDONING positions/judgments/outlooks of this type... while claiming to belong to Christ? Oh, that's right:

"Lord, Lord, didn't we... do such and so... in your name?"

Funny how they can't "see" what he said his response will be to those who make such claims.

Peace... and thank you ALL for the kind/supportive words. I am sure my dear cousin would appreciate them. I certainly do.

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:42 pm 
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If only someone would say to him (the pastor)... or if he were listening to Christ... with regard to his 'I answer to a board of directors':

Quote:
"What about GOD?? Christ?? Isn't THAT who he's (you're... edit mine) SUPPOSED to be answering to??



I am not saying that this is what you should have said to him... but of those who belong to his church/congregation... if only someone would question him, and hold his words here to the LIGHT... then at least some might stop and think about who they are listening TO... instead of going along to get along. Though it sounds as though it may have been an eye opener for some in your family. I am sorry for the pain it must have caused your cousin though.

Thanks for sharing it with us.


Peace,
tammy


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 2:13 pm 
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I wish I had asked him, dear tec (peace, luv!). Although, I'm sure he would have had some "reasonable" response. Reasonable, in HIS mind, that is.

But, yeah, I wish I had. And in front of all 350+ people, too!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:25 pm 
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Quote:
But the response was that the pastor had "a board of directors to answer to."


Translation:

I have a Nice Cushy Job..I don`t want to lose it..
Jesus doesn`t Pay the Bills or Keep Me in Choir Boys..

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..............................Image...OUTLAW

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:39 am 
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You wanna a sure way to eliminate Christ from your religion or congregation?
Install a hierarchy with men making decisions.
When people believe they have men to answer to, then they believe that they don't have to answer to Christ.
When people believe that Men are responsible for guiding them and leading them and "feeding" them, then they get that from men and NOT from Christ.


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