xjwsforChrist

It's been asked on this forum, 'Who should we follow? Christ? Or a man (e.g. Paul)?'

Matt 5:19 says: "Whoever, therefore, breaks one of these least commandments and teaches mankind to that effect, he will be called ‘least’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens. As for anyone who does them and teaches them, this one will be called ‘great’ in relation to the kingdom of the heavens."
Christ said this.

However, Paul said: "Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor." (Gal 3:24,25)

And: In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts. But when there is a turning to Jehovah, the veil is taken away. (2 Cor 3:15,16)

And: "Certainly, then, there occurs a setting aside of the preceding commandment on account of its weakness and ineffectiveness. For the Law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in besides of a better hope did, through which we are drawing near to God." (Heb 7:18,19)

Am I misreading Christs' words?

Another post "lost", dear LQ (peace to you!)... because I clicked on something else when I should have clicked "yes" to save the draft.

The jist:

You're not misreading Christ's words; you are misunderstanding who they applied to. At the time, he was speaking to those still under Law when he said what he did. The obligation as to the Law remained for such ones... until the Law was fulfilled... and replaced by a NEW Law. Once the Law was fulfilled... which is was, by the time Paul arrived and tried to put folks back UNDER the Law... the NEW Law had been instituted. Which is what Paul was speaking of; however, he was trying to have it both ways... which he even later understood would have been spiritual "adultery" (Moses was the mediator/husband of the Old Law; Christ was the mediator/husband of the NEW Law.

If you recall, Christ also said that although there was no one greater born of WOMAN than John the Baptist, even a LEAST one in the kingdom would be greater than John (as a man born of woman and so in the flesh). Who would these least ones be? Those of Israel who were NOT part of the 144,000, including those who my Lord called "the offspring of vipers" and hypocrites. Say what?? Yes, ALL of Israel... will be saved. Including those. Romans 11:1-32; I had quoted that here, but, well... I'm sure you can find and read it yourself - ).

Because my Lord didn't say that they WOULDN'T be saved from condemnation in Gehenna (Matthew 23:33), but asked WHO would save him? JAH Himself answered that through His Prophet, as quoted by Paul in his letter to the Romans:

"I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.” Romans 11:25-27; Isaiah 59:20,21; Jer. 31:33, 34

Christ WILL save ALL of Israel... including those who pierced him (or fomented such piercing), such as those he rebuked. They will be least ones in God's kingdom, though... because of having overstepped the commandments of God... with their traditions! They gave the tenth of the mint, and cumin, etc., but overlooked the WEIGHTIER matters of the Law, namely, justice, mercy, and faith! As did Paul (mercy) when he tried to compel the Corinthians TO judge (Matthew 7:1-5). Perhaps even ALL of Abraham's seed, even that of Ishmael, and not just Isaac. Because JAH will show mercy to whomever HE chooses to show it.

So, who do you listen to? Christ or man (even Paul)? I my guess would be whoever it is that can save you... who HAS everlasting life, not JUST sayings of it... and can give such to others. I mean, that's who I would listen to. But you certainly don't have to do what I would do... or listen to what I've shared here. You can, yourself, choose... as well as go to that One, as well... and ask.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

Amen : )

Perhaps to help you see, leaving... is Christ's words of the new covenant.

Luke 22:20

In the same way, after the supper, He took the cup saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."


Peace,
tammy

Thanks, Shelby and Tammy! I thought as much, but wanted to make sure. Yes, I asked, and while I didn't get a clear yes or no answer, scriptures that popped into my mind were the ones I posted, plus John 13:34 and 1 John 3:21-23.

One thing I noted was that Christ's words in his Sermon on the Mount did NOT say one who broke the commandments wouldn't be saved. He simply said that one who broke the commands would be "least" in the kingdom of the heavens, which is still greater than John the Baptist.

Anyway, thanks. This was really more for clarification to what I already thought, and yes, did ask. Since I don't quite hear as you do, I figured I'd verify. Is that wrong?

I looked them up. They sound pretty clear to me ; )

Often, our Lord will answer me with a question, that leads me to reason/think through to the answer. He will often remind me of certain scriptures/verses to help me see what He is teaching.

Glad to have been able to share something that helped, Leaving-Quietly.


Peace to you!

tammy

OMG - LOLOLOLOL! Peace to you, both, dear LQ and tec... and I was just about to post the SAME thing as dear tec, almost virtually - LOLOLOLOL!

Dear LQ... it can start that, you being given scriptures and verses as reminders. Why? Because we're not all able to "bear" the things he will give us that aren't readily IN the scriptures, etc. So first, you must learn to trust that he IS giving you answers... exercise FAITH that he is (by giving HIM the glory, for one)... and KEEP listening. As you do, you will hear more... and more. You will go from a few verses, to many, to entire accounts, to things not even in the Bible but others writings, including secular/scientific things, etc. It will start as a kind of "whisper" and so long as you put faith in it... and WHO IT'S FROM... you will hear more. Not louder - he will not speak louder. Rather, your hearing will become keener; MORE discerning, etc. And then one day you will realize that he has been speaking to you all along but you didn't RECOGNIZE the voice... or it as being him.

In time, you will know that it's not in your "head"... but inside AND outside... and all around you. You will hear when you're awake and when you sleep. Inside your house and outside of it. Everywhere... and all the time. Just don't worry about what (some) others may think - people think all manner of things, but so what? You will KNOW... and eventually NO ONE will be able to take it from you.

It reminds me of a water leak we once had in our guest bathroom. About 7 years ago I could hear the drip, sounded like inside the wall. Hubby couldn't hear it, but I insisted. So, we called a plumber. We called THREE plumbers... and none could hear it. When family/friends would come over, I would try and point it out to them, but none, male and female, could hear it.

About 5 years ago it got SO loud... to ME, I was SURE someone else could hear it. But nope. Not even another plumber.

Finally, two years ago... 5 years after I first heard it... my husband heard it. Faintly for him. Quite loud for ME. It wasn't in the wall, but the ball and flapper had worn and so water was leaking from the tank into the chrome elbow pipe (my toilets are antiques). Finally... FINALLY... someone else HEARD it... and we got it fixed!

But what was I to do in the meantime? Deny what I heard... just because one else did?

It isn't hearing things (that aren't there) that can drive a person crazy, dear one. It's DENYING what one is hearing... just because others who DON'T hear... don't hear it, too... and want you to shut up about it. Why? Because it is FORCING you... to deny the TRUTH. That is what makes many crazy people crazy: having to deny what you KNOW is true, just because others don't.

It would do the same thing to a physically seeing/hearing person who resided in a house full of blind people... who demanded the seeing/hearing one to DENY what he/she was seeing/hearing... just because the others didn't/couldn't.

Folks should really think about that, what they cause people to DO... when they force them to deny TRUTH.

Militaries all over the world have been doing that, forcing people to deny truth... and using that tactic to reprogram people to believe what THEY want them to.

Take your time, dear one. No rush. Our dear Lord does not lose one, not ONE... except the son of Destruction. Who hasn't even been revealed to us, yet. We can know him and that he exists; we just haven't been allowed to see him, yet. That, too, is coming.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA

I can say I am in full agreement to this as well, Tammy.

This is how I too very often hear.

Dear LQ.... Those verses that supposedly " popped" into your head is one of the ways how we are answered by our Lords voice.

And in reading them, if JAh" IS" Love, and Christ is the exact " image or mirror " of Jah, then the Love as to CHRIST you are reading is referring to the one we are to be following.

Thanks for sharing what you are " hearing" ( smile )

Love justmom

LOL... well there you go, Leaving!

Peace and love to you all,
tammy

Wanna clarify - my house was built in 1932, and my toilets are the originals, made in 1929 (and in really good shape, although I do need to get the pipes re-chromed). They're the kind that USED to have the tanks overhead, like this:

http://www.hometodreamhome.com/Victoria ... dview.html

but now have the tanks lowered so as to look like more modern toilets, with the long chrome pipe replaced by a short chrome elbow pipe. They can be restored to overhead, are in great shape, and plumbers always tell us NOT to replace them (due to their value), so we haven't. They're old, but cool.

Just clarifying because I realized most toilets don't have the pipes like mine do.

Peace!

Shellama, on her own (and apologizing for the toilet "sidebar")

We need the Law to point to what is wrong, what is sin.
We need Christ to see what is right, what is Our Salvation.

Are we under the OT Laws? things like the Sabbath and such?
Some will argue that Yes, we are under those also.
IMO, Paul says it best when he says that every believer must be sure and clear in their own conscience.
In short, Why do YOU think we are or are not, under the law?
Not what someone tells you, but what do YOU think?

If we look to Christ and see what is right, dear P (good day and peace to you!), can we not also see what is wrong... WITHOUT looking at the Law? Like, I think it was Michaelangelo who responded, when asked how he could carve an exquisite piece out of one solid piece of marble: "You just remove what doesn't belong." Or something to that effect.

Christ is the Rock and so, when one looks at HIM... and TO him... so as to be "refined"... cannot one just "remove" what "doesn't belong"... rather than looking at the Law to SEE what doesn't belong and THEN trying to remove it?

You quote Paul, and rightly so, but so did dear LQ (peace to you, as well!)... as to what occurs when we DO look at the Law:

"... since WE have such a hope, WE are very bold. We are NOT like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And WE all, who with unveiled faces reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Corinthians 3:12-18


When Israel, who because of having sinned, where bitten by poisonous vipers, they were told to put their gaze on the copper serpent raised up on a pole by Moses. And they were told:

"'Anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.' ... And so when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived." Number 21:8, 9

What happened, though, for those who did NOT look at it? They died, dear one.

If we look TO the Law... to ANY part of it... do we not have to turn AWAY from looking at Christ to DO so? If, however, our gaze is upon HIM, the "Copper Serpent" raised up for US... like Moses raised the one up for Israel... and is NOT turned away... so as to LIVE... how can we even SEE anything else... including the Old Law? John 3:14, 15

Is that not the point of Isaiah's words, when Israel cried out, wondering why God seemed to not hear THEM? They were looking to and keeping the Law, right down to fasting. But what good did that do them? It didn't gain them any favor with the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies:

“Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
Raise your voice like a trumpet.
Declare to my people their rebellion
and to the descendants of Jacob their sins.

"For day after day they seek me out;
they seem eager to know my ways,
as if they were a nation that does what is right
and has not forsaken the commands of its God.
They ask me for just decisions
and seem eager for God to come near them.

"‘Why have we fasted,’ they say,
‘and you have not seen it?
Why have we humbled ourselves,
and you have not noticed?’

“Yet on the day of your fasting, you do as you please
and exploit all your workers.
Your fasting ends in quarreling and strife,
and in striking each other with wicked fists.

You cannot fast as you do today
and expect your voice to be heard on high.

Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for people to humble themselves?
Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed
and for lying in sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to JaHVeH?

“Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?

Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe them,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

Then your light will break forth like the dawn,
and your healing will quickly appear;
then your righteousness will go before you,
and the glory of JaHVeH will be your rear guard.
Then you will call, and JaHVeH will answer;
you will cry for help, and he will say: Here am I."

Isaiah 58:1-9... but don't stop there! No, read on through Chapter 59.

The POINT is the one cannot please God by turning to the Law. One can ONLY please Him... by turning to Christ! Because to OBEY... is BETTER than sacrifice. And HE said:

"This is my Son, the Beloved... LISTEN TO HIM!" Matthew 17:5

He does not want sacrifice or offerings... whether on the literal altar or from us in our lives... but for us to LISTEN TO HIM:

"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire—
but my ears you have opened—
burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.
Then I said, “Here I am, I have come—
it is written about me in the scroll.[e]
I desire to do your will, my God;
your law is within my heart.”
I proclaim your saving acts in the great assembly;
I do not seal my lips, Lord,
as you know.
I do not hide your righteousness in my heart;
I speak of your faithfulness and your saving help.
I do not conceal your love and your faithfulness
from the great assembly."

Psalm 40:6-10

It is not the Law we're supposed to be looking at, dear P. Indeed, we FULFILL the Law in just TWO "commandments":

"You MUST love God with ALL your heart, soul, mind, and strenght... AND your NEIGHBOR... AS yourself."

Even so, we can NEGATE our fulfillment... by NOT listening to Christ. As that One said:

"Why do you call ME Lord... and NOT do the things I say?"

The Law... the Covenant of which was ratified by the blood of bulls... was to show Israel what sin IS, so that each one could keep HIMSELF from sinning... against God and against his neighbor. It was NOT a window, but a mirror. For one to "peer INTO"... and see one's own lack. Unfortunately, most use it as a window, a means to look at and JUDGE the conduct of another.

When there is a turning to CHRIST, however, to look at and listen to HIM... he who is the MIRROR for seeing GOD (because he is the IMAGE of the MOST Holy One of Israel... and so the One we must LOOK at to SEE God)... one finds FREEDOM... from the sentence OF the Law: death.

If, however, one continues to look at the Law... so as to judge by it... one will BE judged by it. The Law was nailed to the tree along WITH Christ. And while HE was resurrectured from HIS death, it was NOT resurrected... for those who BELONG to Christ. For THEM, it was taken to the grave WITH Christ, BY him... and LEFT there. That some keeping "breathing life" back into its "image"... is, well, prophetic.

A NEW Law, however, was brougth into existence... "birthed"... by Christ. And those who look to HIM... are granted FREEDOM... FROM (eternal) death... by means of the BLOOD that RATIFIED the Covenant pertaining TO it.

One cannot be in BOTH Covenants, though, else be an adulterer to the "husband" of one. Either an adulterer as to Moses, by means of adhering to the NEW Law, and ITS "husband", Christ... or an adulterer as to Christ, by means of adhering to the Old Law and ITS "husband," Moses.

The Body of Christ and so his BRIDE... is to have only one "husband" and Master: Christ. And so HIS law. The former master and "husband," Moses... and his Law... have been done away with for those whose Master... and husband... IS Christ.

Now, the "work" of that Bride is NOT to look to, at, or judge by the Old Law but, pursuant to the GOOD news of the kingdom, which is based on and offered by means of a NEW Law and Covenant... is, along WITH Christ, the [Holy] Spirit, to say:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... the holy spirit of God, His BLOOD... which "ratifies" for any who receive it, the covenant BETWEEN Him and them, as mediated by His Son, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... FREE!"

Because that is what that One said those HEARING... WOULD do:

"The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life." Revelation 22:17

It is better to obey... and be faithFUL in what is LEAST... than to sacrifice.

May those with ears to hear, hear and get the sense of these truths. May those without ears, but who truly wish them, be given such... by the One who has been GRANTED to UNSTOP the ears... of the deaf... and give sight... to the blind.

Peace to you all!

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and all those who go with... and a slave of His Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah),

SA

In addition to what has been stated above, there is another aspect that one might consider and that one can take in understanding whether one is "under the law." Are you a Jew? Are you from any of the tribes of Israel? Having asked those two questions, you might consider the following biblical texts:

Psalm 147:19-20
Amos 3:2
Exodus 19:5; 31:17
Deuteronomy 4:7-8, 33-34, 44; 5:3; 7:6; 10:15; 26:18-19; 28:1
1 Chronicles:17:21
2 Samuel 7:23

According to these texts (and a few more), the "Law" was given ONLY to Israel. Not to the Egyptians, not to the Amalekites, Perrizites, Hittites, Romans, Greeks, etc., etc., etc.--but ONLY to Israel. So, if you are not Israel, why would you put yourself under such a "Law"? Unless, of course, you too wanted to worship the God of Israel.

The fact is that Christ did NOT address many issues when He was here.
Fact is that a person telling them "Christ told me..." means nothing to another person who has either NOT heard Christ or has heard somehting different.
Until those "facts" change, we need the law.
By law I mean our civil laws of course.
The Law will be with us until the day it no longer needs to be with us and that day will be when Christ is in all of Us.
Until then...

Au contrare, dear P (again, peace to you!): our Lord addressed EVERYTHING... through HIS law:

"You must LOVE God... with you WHOLE heart, soul, mind and strength... and you must LOVE your neighbor... AS you love YOURSELF."

So, while he took the Old Law to the grave, he left us a NEW Law to look FORWARD to. One where one would not sin "against" God OR a brother, PURPOSEFULLY, because love "does not look out for it's own interests." And, when one do so sin... one can fine "refuge" in HIM... and in the "city" HE is building... where he reigns as a High Priest who NEVER dies.

He fulfilled the Law, dear one... and replaced it. With a NEW Law. The ONLY Law we should be looking to.

We're not supposed to be looking BACK, dear one. As dear Lot's wife did... and so became a pillar of salt. Even so, she was OUTSIDE of Sodom, and so did not receive the same fate. She, then, can look forward to a resurrection. What, though, had she GONE back?

It is the same with us: we are not supposed to look BACK.. to the Law that ends in DEATH... but look FORWARD... to LIFE... by means of looking AT the Life, Christ (John 14:6). We are supposed to flee to ZION, the "mountain" BEFORE us... not look back to "Sinai"... the "mountain" BEHIND us.

Of course, Christ's law does not say "Wanna commit adultery? Go'head! It's cool!" or "Wanna murder someone? Why not?" or "Nothing wrong with bearing false witness against your brother! Heck, do it... and covet his stuff while you're at it!". No. Those things are INCLUDED in the New Law which says you must LOVE your brother... AS yourself. And so, the NEW Law doesn't say it's "okay" to have "other gods" before JAH... or to worship idols, etc.

Under the OLD Law if you did such things you could (and most likely would) be put to death! Under the NEW Law, it is that IF you do such things... you CAN be forgiven! You don't HAVE to die! You CAN be shown mercy! Whereas, under the Old Law, while you SHOULD have shown mercy... you could be justified in NOT doing so.

We need to keep movin', dear ones. FORWARD. TO Life. And not looking back... to death.

May those with ears hear... and get the sense of this truth... though not from ME. He's out there, waiting. For you to come to HIM... and ask HIM. May you be given the faith, if you truly wish it... to do so.

Again, peace to you, dear one... and to you all!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

AH Shel...
Until that day comes, until the day comes when we ALL look to Christ, well...we still have to live in the world that the "majority" are making.
All we can do is lead by example, lead by following Our Lord.