xjwsforChrist

AGUEST SAID

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject: To Our Dear Resident Atheists
May you all have peace!

Some recent interchanges have been on my mind and heart lately that make wonder about some things, some possibly erroneous perceptions as to what I do or do not think of atheists/atheism, and so I think it might be good thing to clarify a couple/few things, at least with regard to ME... and atheists/atheism.

First, I am NOT against atheism... or atheists. I believe that each one must choose for himself/herself... and that JAH shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it. Even those without faith (in Him).

I am not against ANYTHING... except that which is against ME, literally, and that which is against my Lord. Because such is against me, as well. If an atheist is not against ME... or against my Lord... and many AREN'T... then I have nothing against an atheist. And many atheists, while not BELIEVING in my Lord, have nothing AGAINST him... or those who believe in and/or belong to him.

Even so, more than atheists/atheism who ARE against me and/or my Lord, I AM against the WTBTS. But that's because they "seat themselves in the seat of Moses," which seat does not BELONG to them. They call themselves the "truth," their leaders call themselves "the faithful and discreet slave", they teach lies ABOUT my Lord, the One they CLAIM to know and follow... all while literally leading people AWAY from God and Christ. At least atheists are HONEST about their goal, those who undertake to try and dissuade folks from faith in God/Christ - they don't BELIEVE in God/Christ.

But that is not the case with the WTBTS. They LYINGLY say they believe in God/Christ... yet, teach and conduct themselves in DIRECT opposition to God/Christ. In general. Some don't even believe in God/Christ themselves, but sit in positions that mislead others to BELIEVE they do.

And finally, due to their treatment of the Body of Christ... whom their wolves "snatch and scatter,"... they SHOW themselves to be "against" us... and thus Christ, literally.

I don't care if that harlot stands or falls because either way it is her OWN master that she does. I DO care about those IN her who, because of sharing in her sins... stand to receive part of her plagues. They should at least be warned... and have an opportunity to get OUT of her, while they still can.

Some atheists may think that disspelling God/Christ is what will bring those who are so inclined out of her. And that may be true for SOME, but not ALL. There are those who will NOT leave her so long as they believe God is "with" and "in" her, that her leaders ARE somehow connected to and led by God... and so following THEM means following HIM. This is a LIE, of course, which we BOTH know: atheists and those TRULY in union with Christ.

I find it... curious... though, that while the WTBTS was once viewed as the only "enemy" of some atheists I have come to be acquainted with, particularly those who were formerly JWs, some have now found for themselves a NEW "enemy," and one who means them no harm or wishes them no illwill. Who aren't even "against" them or their [dis]belief. I seems to me that such simply want to "fight"... with whomever they feel don't see things their "way." But is that not the "way" of the WTBTS... to take offense and fight with ANY who don't see things their way?

And so I would ask those members who are atheistic to perhaps take a moment and consider why you believe you have enemies here, if you do, and if so, why you would come into "enemy" territory... and pick fights. Or try to pick them. It makes NO sense to ME... other than perhaps as a further demonstration of WTBTS baggage that one has not TRULY fully unpacked.

If your issue is simply on the basis that some claim to hear Christ, why truly is that of concern... other than being born of some kind of envy or jealousy... perhaps due to the thinking that WE believe he speaks only to a select few and not others. But that is not the case at ALL, nor is that what we state. To the contrary, he speaks to ALL of mankind... and we have said that many, many... many... times. Rather than be like the child who DOESN'T listen to the voice of a parent but takes issue with the child that DOES, why not TRY to listen and hear for yourself... rather than try to oppose, even harass, your brother? If you think you ARE listening, but still cannot hear the parent's voice... would it not be more prudent, even more intelligent... to take it up with the PARENT... versus with the sibling?

The whole affair often reminds me of, say, a situation where a parent goes on vacation and leaves the children... who are of sufficient age to BE left... behind. The parent calls/texts ALL of the children, but only some give the communications any attention or credence. Most are either too busy talking/texting their friends and so hear the "call"... or don't WANT to hear because they believe it will be either another chore or some kind of restriction/reminder (and they have EVERY intention of going to that party and so believe it's easier to say "I never got your call!" than to possibly hear "No, you can't go to that party").

Some have misplaced their phones... and others have let the battery run down. And some... have lent their phones to their "friends"... who are not TELLING them that the parent is calling.

ALL of these are the kind of siblings, however, that rather than acknowleding the brother/sister who IGNORED the calls/texts/party invites from friends... who kept their phones NEAR... and CHARGED... WAITING for the parent's call... and excitedly answering EACH time... because they WANT to hear from the parent... take issue with their siblings, calling them "goody two shoes" and "pet" and the like... even pushing and shoving them around. NOT because the sibling IS good... but because they remind such one of just how IRRESPONSIBLE they are.

I realize that some aren't going to get this, perhaps even take issue with it. But is simply an attempt to say that the siblings who DO sit by the phone waiting for the parent to call... DO NOT have anything against those siblings that don't, except to the extent such may be LYING about the "calls" THEY receive... and using those lies to mislead other siblings.

In which case, the child who spoke with the parent should... MUST... share the TRUTH of the parent's message with the others... as well as encourage THEM... to call the parent and get the message for themselves.

And that really is all that is going on here, at least with regard to ME. NO ONE has to believe the call I say I received - ANYONE can call and hear the message for themselves. But to have received a call... and be told to share the message with one's siblings... and then refuse/fail to do that... yet say one LOVES his/her parent AND his/her siblings... is false.

So, I do what I do... and share what I do... in an effort to DEMONSTRATE that love. If, however, the love of my SIBLING is lacking... such that they can't receive mine... or even recognize love in this form... that's not my concern. It is MY love... for THEM... and for the parent... that must not fail. EVEN when and where such siblings don't want... and/or reject it.

I hope this helps. It certainly has helped me.

Again, peace to you!

A slave of Christ,

SA, who did not include agnostics in this exchange, for obvious reasons...

BURNTHESHIPS SAID

When do Catholics get a thread?

AGUEST SAID

Ummmmm... perhaps when you start one, dear Burns (the greatest of love and peace to you this fine morning, dear one)? LOLOLOL! You are MORE than free to do so. Althooooough, we did recently venture down that trail and, well, given where we almost ended up, maybe we should continue the detour for a bit, just out of love for our dear Catholic folks? LOLOLOL!

But if you're feelin' froggy, well, then... LOLOLOL!

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama

CHARIKLO SAID

Burns, Catholics don't need a thread of our own. We can just join in everything else, because we're all Christians.

I mean I am here because I was exposed to the JW's, and nearly got absorbed into it, and that makes me as much of an xjw as the forum's Admin, as I am led to believe, and I am for Christ, and I like the people here, so the whole board is for me as a Christian, as a Catholic, because Catholics are Christian, as an ex-nearly-JW and because I like the warmth of the place and the interesting discussions.

I agree with a great deal, and with some things I don't, but provided I can speak my mind and that everyone is straight, and as tolerant as they can manage, given their individual particular point of view, then I am happy here in all threads, though thinking I am bottom of the class in the Learn Spanish one.

If you want to have a Catholic thread I'll join in there to keep you company with pleasure, but personally I can't say I feel the need, or even see the point, really!

TEC SAID

I am bottom of the class in the Spanish thread, Char. I have not had time to do it. I am sorry to everyone who is putting in so much effort. I just have not had the time or the brainpower to focus on one more thing at the moment, lol.

But it will all still be there when I do have the time (and brainpower )

Quote:
ex-nearly-JW


LOL... good term. Applies to me as well.


Good posts, all.


Peace and love,
tammy

OUTLAW SAID


The only call I get is from my favorite Chinese Food Chef across the river..
"OUTLAW,your 15 minutes late!.. Your Take Out Food order is getting Cold!"..
I get my 2nd scolding when I arrive..
Then she Makes me Pay for it!..

Your Meal should be Free..
If you get 2 Scoldings from a small Chinese Woman..

AGUEST SAID

THANK you, dear, dear Char, for that (the greatest of love and peace to you!). I wish I hadn't felt it necessary to have an "atheist" thread but I am often confused by when it SEEMS that some believe we are against them... or other matters that some of the religious are... when we're not. And so I held out my own kind of "olive branch" (oooh, did I say that??!!! LOLOLOL!), to try and clarify.

Because I think some believe that because the beliefs of christians and atheists are so diametrically opposed, that christians and atheists themselves must be. Like there MUST be some kind of... mmmmm... unspoken "patriotism." When the truth is that there doesn't HAVE to be.

This is not a "christian vs. atheists" forum, not at all. Nor is it an "anti-Catholic" site. It's not even an anti-religion site. It's an "exJws (or ex-near JWs - LOLOL!) FOR Christ" site... where who were/are a JW (or near JW) can discuss all manner of topics but most assuredly their faith in and relationship with God/Christ... and ANY who are FOR Christ... regardless of their background or current association/affiliation, can share, as well.

Now, of course, that will most assuredly raise questions/garner comments from others... and we welcome that! Again, though, it's just curious why some have the preconceived notion that WE (well, I) have a problem with THEM... or ANYONE... other than the WTBTS, and them for the reasons stated.

I don't have such problem(s), not at all. To his/her OWN master each one will stand or fall. But while any of us christians can doubt the certainty of atheists... or any atheists here can doubt the certainty of christians... we ALL know the WTBTS is a lie, a false prophet, and led by false Christs. There is NO doubt among ANY of us as to THAT, not even among currently associating JWs who are members here. We ALL know the WTBTS is not what it claims to be, WHO it claims to be, HAS what it claims to have, or is led by/follows who it claims to be led by/following.

And as I've also stated many times, that is the only "city" to whom I have been sent to call out to the "lost sheep of Israel." Not the RCC, not atheists, not the State of Israel in the Middle East, not Jews, not Samaritans, etc. Of course, if any from those ASK... then, yes, of COURSE I would share with them! Why NOT? But I am not sent to any of them.

So, that's the purpose, to just say, "Look, I'm not against one... to the extent one is not against ME... or my Lord... which is same, either way.

That's it, that's all.

So, again, thank YOU... and peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

GLADIATOR SAID

Shelby/Aguest, Tammy/tec...

Your decision to allow atheists and agnostics to join your forum is a generous gesture. What originally attracted me to your Christian group is the closeness and affection that you offer. Having been a Jehovah's Witnesses and enjoyed being part of a brother/sisterhood and left this is something I miss. My decision cost me my family, so there are bound to be emotional issues at play, also and an awareness of the damage that strongly held convictions can ultimately result in.

Attempting to be supportive of something that I don’t believe in, and at the same time making opposing comments, is a conflict of interests. It is one thing for fellow believers to discuss and question the details of their belief, but remarks from a non-believer can appear to be an attempt to damage what you share and value; to be seen as not genuine inquiry but sabotage.

It is understandable that you want a place where you can be among like minded people to discuss thing that matter to you. With hindsight I did not fully understood the purpose of the member only sections and therefore did no shown the respected that I should have. Commenting on how the forum is run is not my brief.

It seems likely that there will continue to be many debates and discussions between Christians on this forum. This is beneficial and necessary in order to come to a consensus as to what constitutes truth. Wanting to be able to discuss these things privately and without criticism is also totally understandable.

As my ‘truth’ does not at present include a belief in Christ Jesus, my attempting to take part in such discussion could be seen as disruptive and unwarranted. The same would really apply to any others that don’t share the Christian belief, be they atheist, agnostic or a different belief. The motive for such involvement would always be brought into question.

I wish you dear people well and thank you for the kindness you have shown me. I must leave all you Christians on this forum to talk amongst yourselves and hope that your dreams come true.


Take care of each other

Trevor

JUSTMOM SAID

Dear Glad

I want to thank you for the kind way you described how you feel.

Most of us share a huge part of our past and have all been damaged and heartbroken from the WTBS.
We all had to find and follow our own path that we believe in our hears to be " TRUTH "
My wish is that you have found your TRUTH and have come to be content with it.
No matter who we claim to be, we can ALWAYS show LOVE to one another. That s the true key.

There are many topics here that are sorta generic. Lol

You are welcome anytime and you never know. You may miss us too much
and be back sooner than you think!

Love Justmom

TEC SAID

Trevor, you are always - always - welcome. I do not doubt at all that you are sincere, or that you care, or that your comments and concerns come from this place of honesty and compassion within you.

It is the love and respect we show one another that matters. We need only to remember these; and to try to understanding one another even where we disagree... and that sometimes means live and let live, and also, he who is not against you is for you.

Thank you for what you said about the parts of the forum that you did not understand the purpose, originally. Thank you for understanding.

I am thankful for your friendship, your concern, your honesty and view, and your comments... and I do hope that you come and visit us as often as you like. I will miss you when you are not here.


Peace and love to you, always.

Your friend,

tammy

CHARIKLO SAID

Gladiator, speaking personally, selfishly, just for me, I love having you here. You haven't been posting so much, and I've missed you.

I think you're feeling unworthy, and you shouldn't. You are wanted, I think by a lot of people here but I know by me!

I felt the other day that I didn't belong and thought of distancing myself, but people sent me such lovely messages, and I knew I'd miss it and also that I'm a bit poorly and it's not good to decide things at such times...so I decided not to decide.

Maybe you could consider deciding not to decide too? or not to decide just now?

I hope you change your mind, I really do.

LOZ SAID

I'd like to add my voice Gladiator and say that I will also miss you. Disagreements can cause any of us pain, and it's so easy to feel we are superfluous here or anywhere, even perhaps just uncomfortable. Our personal insecurities can lead us down those paths, but in reality we are all unique and important and valued. This forum is for all who want to be here and share, in peace, surely, and I'm sure that includes you too.

Loz x
_________________
Don't let anyone put you down, and don't do it to yourself.

QUENTIN SAID

Well, there is the old adage:"There ain't no atheist in a fox hole"...wonder what the fox thinks...resents the cramped intrusion I'm sure...

gladiator Spartacus commands you stay...
Any comment YOU make on ANY thread, no matter the subject, is most welcomed, besides you ain't no hayseed...I know, have read your posts over the years, an analytical well formed comment keeps our head out of the clouds...us spiritual types need to be brought down a peg or two from time to time.
_________________
Vinegar tasts better in freedom
than honey in slavery

How can you unterstand a thing unless you know it?
How can you know a thing unless you understand it?

GLADIATOR SAID

Thanks for your comments. As I said in a post a few days ago I will call in and say hello from time to time.

AGUEST SAID

I totally and vehemently echo what all others have stated to you, dear Glad (good morning and peace to you!). Indeed, I hope you not only consider reconsidering your participation here, but your potential as a moderator. As someone who I've always found not only to be tolerant, but balanced, and able to remain neutral when the matter calls for it, your's is one personality that I personally thought would prove quite beneficial as a moderator here. Which is why you were considered.

I would also like to comment on the following:

Quote:
Attempting to be supportive of something that I don’t believe in, and at the same time making opposing comments, is a conflict of interests.


Yes, I don't see how one can do that, actually. I can, however, see how one can be supportive of SOMEONE, without necessarily supporting of someTHING (i.e., their beliefs). Take the U.S. Presidency, for example. I am sure that while they may not have voted FOR the incumbent... or his position or platform, there are those who have no problem supporting the President because he IS the President - the "office" versus the person holding office, in spite of what such a person believes. Even so, the person should be open to having their beliefs questioned, yes, if such questions are in earnest... an attempt, perhaps, to understand... versus just tear down.

Love can do that, allow someone to be supportive of another in spite of differences in beliefs. Take the matter of homosexuality, for example (and I don't mean that for purposes of discussing homosexuality - not going on that ride). One may not believe in it but, say, that have a loved one who IS homosexual. What MUST they do, versus what CAN they do? MUST they oppose the loved one's lifestyle? Or CAN they simply accept that one as they are... and their CHOICES... and just LOVE them? Or say one's child chooses to marry someone one doesn't like or wish them to. MUST one oppose the union? Or CAN they simply accept and support their child and his/her CHOICE... and just LOVE them?

Quote:
It is one thing for fellow believers to discuss and question the details of their belief, but remarks from a non-believer can appear to be an attempt to damage what you share and value; to be seen as not genuine inquiry but sabotage.


I think that it depends, dear one, on WHO is making such remarks. Coming from some, it should be totally understandable if their remarks are taken so. If a demonstrated track record for arguing simply for argument's sake, or merely trying to stir up controversy because thoughts, ideas, and issues are being raised/discussed that are unacceptable to the person, then such a one really shouldn't get all "who me??" when their antics are called out. Certainly if one is discussing elsewhere what they INTEND to do/cause - how can such a one publish their intent and then take issue when that intent is commented upon?

But if one's inquiry IS borne of a genuine desire to KNOW, then where is the place for suspicion? It helps to know the one inquiring, of course. But so long as there's never been any BASIS to RAISE suspicion (and one's childhood and/or other experiences do not necessarily provide a valid basis - just because one couldn't trust ONE adult as a child doesn't mean one cannot trust ANY; in the same vein, just because one couldn't trust ONE set of beliefs... or the teachers/fomenters of such... as a child, or even older... doesn't mean one cannot trust ANY. Both are very short-sighted, IMHO, and often leave the untrusting one lacking in some way or another)... one should be given the benefit of the doubt.

To say, though, something to the effect of, "Well, my parents/the elders/WTBTS GB lied to me as a JW and so ALL adults lie about faith/belief" is ridiculous. It's like not eating bread as an adult because your parents/elders/WTBTS GB told you "bread" was "bad." THEY lied. Doesn't mean EVERYONE does... or is.

Quote:
It is understandable that you want a place where you can be among like minded people to discuss thing that matter to you.


Well, yes, but that wasn't the impetus for this place; the impetus was being unable to do so elsewhere, although their were like-minded folk there. Unfortunately, the UNlike-minded could not handle that. I find it interesting, however, that some of those unlike-minded folk still feel the need to come/be where we ARE. When you ask such ones what they're looking for, they deny looking for anything. If there's nothing, then one has to ask "Then why are you HERE, if not to learn what we ARE discussing?" In spite of the many responses to the contrary and that attempt to communicate disinterest, though, MY logical... and RATIONAL... mind says, "Either you ARE here because you ARE interested... or with to HELP those who are interested... or your are here to start trouble." Because there really is no other reason.

What is... curious... to ME... is the observable reluctance of some to ADMIT that, while they may not accept/believe/grasp all... they ARE interested, to a greater or lesser degree. They HAVE to be... else, again, why COME here? I just don't get the lack of honesty, intellectual or otherwise... and so I had to ask just "what's going on." And here is what my Lord explained to ME:

Many have unresolved issues with being excluded from something. For many, this is the result of having been raised JW children who, due to the tenets of the WTBTS, were often excluded from activities and topics regularly engaged in by their non-JW peers. That exclusion left them with a feeling of inferiority (and rightly so!), which feelings have not yet been conquered. To the contrary, whenever they feel left out, not a part, even perhaps prohibited or restricted from something "others" have a part in/access to... those feelings not only rise up... but with a "need" to "fight" that which causes them. What they don't understand is that is it not the activity, topic, or presenter of them that causes them this need: it is the dichotomy of their early WTBTS indoctrination that they have not yet fully disspelled. That indoctination is one that says, on the one hand, "You MUST belong, and here is the criteria/conduct/belief/understanding that MAKES you belong... and any who DON'T have it is inferior" while saying on the other hand "You must NOT belong to such criteria/conduct/belief/understanding and if you DO... you are inferior."

You MUST be "in the know" as to THIS... or be considered "inferior," but you must NOT be "in the know" as to THAT... or be considered "inferior." Because of this, they learned early to feel "left out", either by NOT conforming... or by rejecting activities/topics of their peers... and that feeling is anathema to them.

And then... here we come along. Too much for some with those unresolved issues to handle. Because we represent ALL that was "wrong" with their upbringing!

But... we truly are NOT the enemy! And we're not dangerous... unless one considers truth dangerous... and many... MANY... do. They can't accept it as to their own selves, let alone God and Christ. But that truly is all we're offering: truth. For a frickin' change. That one cannot (yet) RECOGNIZE truth... perhaps because they've been lied to SO much and for SO long... does not negate truth, though.

Quote:
With hindsight I did not fully understood the purpose of the member only sections and therefore did no shown the respected that I should have.


Ahh, dear Glad... And I think you mean the "Walking By Faith" section OF the Members Only section... but I totally understand and I think all here do. We don't want it to be EXCLUSIVE, dear one, but merely a safe place... refuge, if you will, for those who wish to TO be able to share what they feel compelled to... as received from God/Christ/the Spirit. Of course, it MIGHT be subject to challenge. I mean, if someone posted there that God/Christ/the Spirit told THEM to... say... shut down another site, or "go after Muslims" (which I had a relative actually tell me - he was young and so extremely immature and so impressionable and had been listening to radical "christian" friends "rant" about the "dangers" of Muslims in our communities on his college campus and then somehow interpreted THAT as "Christ telling" him such... sigh... but PRAISE JAH I was able to reason with him WHY would Christ even WANT such a thing - what had any Muslims done to HIM... or anyone he KNEW??... so he managed to calm down and leave off that line of thinking... again, praise JAH)... I would absolutely challenge such. Because it is not meant to be a place where folks can just "spout" revelation - there has to be SOME indication that it DID come from Christ... and so it has to stand up to testing, should that be necessary. Because all inspired expressions DON'T originate with God. Some originate with some "other" spirit.

Quote:
Commenting on how the forum is run is not my brief.


Which is why your "turn" was SO confusing to me; I had never seen you "go there" before, ever (although, perhaps you have elsewhere but, again, I've never seen that from you). Both dear tec (peace!) and I had NO reservations about you because of that. While we certainly knew that you would engage, inquire, even oppose BELIEFS, I didn't see where you were the kind to take issue with the purpose or administration of the site. So, I was quite taken aback ("Huh? What's THAT all about?!").

I realize that perhaps your love for dear tec... and perhaps me (as you indicated previously) may have prompted you to have more than the usual concern, if that were NECESSARY, but I can't see where it was or is. Neither of us are doing anything differently than we did on a previous site. We both have shared what we received from our dear Lord. So, I personally became concerned for YOU, that perhaps you were allowing yourself to "succumb" to unnecessary fears but in YOUR mind and heart by others. Because you truly ARE concerned, it's totally understandable that others, whose agenda is NOT love and concern, but, again... inability to "conquer" feelings of exclusion, etc., might use that quality in YOU to exploit YOUR good nature. Of course, that may not be the case at ALL... but the track record, yours AND others... make it easy for ME to believe it plays a part to SOME degree, if not a great degree.

And so, again, I truly hope you reconsider; however, I also totally understand if you are unable to do that. You USED to sign off with the comment "May you gods be with you" or something like that, dear Glad. That suggested to me that one's gods/beliefs WEREN'T a problem for YOU... that you COULD accept such differences. And so, again, I am surprised... and a bit saddened... at the "change". But... I understand... and accept... it.

May the undeserved kindness and mercy of MY God and Father, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, and the love and peace of His Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah) be upon you... TRULY... if YOU wish it... and to time indefinite!

Again, peace to YOU, and I remain, always...

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama