xjwsforChrist

PSACRAMENTO SAID

There are many views about creation, allow me to summerize the main ones:
Old Earth Creation ( OEC), the universe was created billions of eyars ago by God, Earth was created after and man ofter that, the 7 days of creation are literal BUT are not 7 24hour periods.
Young Earth Creation (YEC), the universe and earth were created about 6K years ago and the 7 days are 7 24 hour periods.
Intelligent design (ID), all life was designed by God as is ( both YEC and OEC are ok with that view)
Theistic Evolution (TE), the universe was created billions of years ago, Earth after that and all life was started by God but evolved to what we have now.

I may have missed some...sorry.

Which one do you agree with and why?

I am closest to the TE position myself.

TEC SAID

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:32 pm Post subject:
I am closest to TE as well. But I am aware that we have only a few pieces of the puzzle, so the actual picture is still very incomplete.

Peace,
tammy

CHARIKLO SAID

I don't see a lot of difference between OEC and TE. Just a shade, maybe.

Me? I too am closest to TE/OEC. but, like Tec, I don't think we know. I like the scientific approach. I think that God gave us brains to use. I think human beings are searching for knowledge all the time.

I also think there is a spiritual dimension to everything, and that this is not measurable and defies any attempt at a scientific empirical approach. I think this spiritual dimension. Is likely to. Be ultimately Moore important and significant than the physical,

Therefore I believe we (human beings) will constantly be seeking and discovering and that each new discovery will lead to further questions. And I think that all of that is wonderful!

PSACRAMENTO SAID

Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 6:35 pm Post subject:
In my view there is still a lot about the evolutionary process that we need to confirm and not just speculate for the "bets possible answer".
IT makes sense that God would instill in all life the ability to adapt to their environment, to meet the demand imposed by the every challenging environment.
Too many issues with "intelligent design" for it to get my vote right now...

AGUEST SAID

I would have to say a combination of OEC/TE/ID, dear P (peace to you, brother!), as follows:



Yes, to a greater/lesser degree;



Ummmmm... no. That only goes back to Adham, per se, and doesn't take into account all that came... had to come... before him.


Well, yes, because you can't really have the other two with this, right?



Yes, except as to "all life... evolved to what we have now." Not my understanding. Yes, as to all animal (beast) life; no, as to man. Sorry, I know evolutionists can't fathom that but I have to go with what my Lord had told me (you KNOW I asked about this! LOLOL!)... and he has never lied to me, yet, so....

The "problem," as I understand it, is what folks are missing as to understanding what a "day" is. And I don't mean in terms of, say, a period of time ("Noah's day"). I mean in terms of time. We are on a tiny little planet that orbits a star in a manner of time that is measured by days, each consisting of 24 hours. It revolves on its axis in time that is measured in seconds/minutes/hours... that total up to a "day"... increments. Time, then, is limited to how it must be measured in relation to THIS planet... and this planet alone. It is different, necessarily, on every other planet... and would only be the same on a planet that is, for all intents and purposes, IDENTICAL to this one... as to its distance from its sun and its speed of revolution.

JAH does not measure time as we do... by our tiny little planet. And so a "day" for HIM... would, LOGICALLY, have to be a different MEASURE of time. But there's more: for HIM... time is also based on the expansion rate of the physical universe. Think of a splash... and its projection. While all "drops" will travel AWAY from the center/origin of the event (where the stone actually "hit" the water)... they will also travel awa at different SPEEDS. Thus, some will travel FARTHER, while others not so much. Depends on other variable (volume, density, rate of impact, etc.).

And so "time" within an event such as that is also measured differently... because the "rate" of projection is different. Some drops travel faster and farther, some slower and not so far, some slower but farther, some fast, but not so far, etc. Now, if WE are measuring the projection, WE would measure it all using the same measurements/equations/rates of speed/time, etc. But say, dear PSac was on one drop... dear Sab on another... dear Char... on another, Loz on another, tec on another... you would each measure YOUR "time" differently. Based on variables unique to YOUR particular "drop."

And that is my understanding as to why folks can't reconcile the creation "timeline" - they're trying to do it using man's measurements, as they relate to our planet NOW.

But let me ask you: we know the universe is expanding. Whether it's start was due to a "big bang" or not... there was a start. Where, in the projection from that start... was what is now our solar system... and what is now "earth"? Because we haven't always been right here... within the universe. If so, then the universe is NOT expanding, but is static. Yes?

And if it was in a different position, location... did a "day" consist of the exact same period of time as it does now? Would it? COULD it?

Our planet is spinning around a star that is spinning with a galaxy that is spinning within a projectory that is spinning... away from its origin. What WE know as "time"... is such a tiny, tiny, infinitestimally tiny... measure. In the grand scheme of things. We make it even worse in our (American) culture... by our impatience. Other cultures/societies have been around for millenia. Not one or two millenia... but 3, 4, 5 millenia. They've watched socieites like ours come and go. We, though, need everything... and every answer... right here and right now. It will be our undoing, though.

Unlike the "archaic" cultures on this earth that survive simply by perserverance and knowing how to be a part of the land... we are going to do what all of the "intellectual" societies before us did... and rely on our "high" minds... and our mammon. Those before did so, though, to the detriment of their entire civilizations... or at least the rulership/leadership of those in the earth. We will, too, unfortunately.

Probably why all of the "futuristic" movies show man as having regressed... to tribal people wearing robes and rags... living in the ruins and shadows of once great cities and their respective icons. Life can imitate art; indeed, if often does.

Just my $0.02, dear P.

Peace to you all!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

GLTIREBITER SAID

OEC combined with TE.

I am not a scriptural literalist, nor am I a believer in the "static universe" that always was and always will be. I believe that space and time have an origin, the event described in Genesis 1 using the words that humans of that era had at their disposal.

I agree with Augustine that the six days of creative activity were epochs, not a literal span of 144 hours.

I have no issue with the Big Bang, seeing in that explanation of "where does it all come from" both a scientific model for explaining how things came to be, and a spiritual explanation of why things came to be.

ZOE SAID

I honestly don't know what to believe. I often think about it especially when sitting outside on a beautiful evening looking at all the stars.

There has to be something besides us out there and a higher power, I just wish that higher power or Jesus would give us more information. Maybe we arent ready for it yet.

PSACRAMENTO SAID

My biggest issue with ID is that, well, quite honestly many things do NOT seem very well designed or very "nice" at all.
Parasites for example, those paras tic wasps are another ( why would God create them like THAT?)
Our appendix for example.
I can accept an intelligent designer of course but not that ALL life was designed the way we know them to be RIGHT NOW.
Since we ALL came from the same source we all have the same kind of "life substance" and as such, we all have a "common ancestor".
The issue with evolution is how it relates to man.
Did man evolve into what we now call homo sapiens or was our species specially created?
I don't think that justbecause we share so much with "man" that came before us that this MUST mean that we evolved from on type of them.
BUT, at the same time, I don't see a big deal if that is indeed the case.

I am open to the possibility that Adam and Eve were unique and created and that homo sapiens as we know them now, as basically what we have from the "interbreeding" of Adam and Eve's offspring AND "other man" that was around at the time.

I am open to the possibility that Adam and Eve were the first a new type of creation and when they left Eden, they interbreed with the other type already in existence.

I am open to the possibility that Adam was the first fully Human man to find God and Eve was made "of him" as he was.

I am open to the possibility that Adam and Eve were the first human couple to find God and things went on from there.

144001 SAID

My beliefs are a bit different from all of the categories. I'm an agnostic, but not an atheist.

I do not believe that any of man's religions have the true answer to how humans began and why we exist on this planet. I do not believe in the bible as being the word of god.

I do believe that there may very well be a higher power somewhere, but I think that humans have no clue whatsoever regarding the nature of that higher power. I believe that this subject may be beyond human comprehension.

I've had two personal experiences that suggest that there is a higher power. They were both frightening; one was life-threatening, and the other occurred when I foolishly disrespected a native American religious ritual that I had observed at a "pow wow" the night before. These experiences, in addition to flooding my body with adrenaline, opened my mind to the possibility that there is a higher power.

AGUEST SAID

Please... DO share, dear One (peace to you!). And yes, welcome back, dear BTS (peace to you, as well!). I kept waiting for your guy's dough to, what, stick to the ceiling or something - LOLOLOL!

Peace... and looking forward to dear One's account!

A slave of Christ,

SA

HABUB SAID


Have to go with TE.

P/Sac -- have you heard the latest about the appendix and how scientists may have been wrong for all these yrs. and that it does serve a purpose --- to fight off bacteria in the stomach, etc. Very interesting. It's one of the AOL topics.

TEC SAID

That is interesting Habub. I'm going to look it up, but please keep us updated (if you want).



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 175901.htm

This is a couple years old, so I don't know where we are on it today... but an interesting bit comes at the end, in regard to theories on how we can help prevent appendicitis.

Peace,
tammy