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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:11 am 
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11 And the word of Jehovah again came to me, saying: 12 “Son of man, sing a dirge concerning the king of Tyre, and tell him, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says:
    “You were the model of perfection,
    Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.
    You were adorned with every precious stone
    —Ruby, topaz, and jasper;
    chrysʹo·lite, onyx, and jade; sapphire, turquoise, and emerald;
    And their settings and mountings were made of gold.
    They were prepared on the day you were created.
14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.
    You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.
15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
    Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 Because of your abundant trade, You became filled with violence, and you began to sin.
    So I will cast you out as profane from the mountain of God and destroy you,
    O covering cherub, away from the stones of fire.
17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.
    You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor.
    I will throw you down to the earth.
    I will make you a spectacle before kings.
18 Because of your great guilt and your dishonest trading, you have profaned your sanctuaries.
    I will cause a fire to break out in your midst, and it will consume you.
    I will reduce you to ashes on the earth before all those looking at you.
19 All who knew you among the peoples will stare at you in amazement.
    Your end will be sudden and terrible,
    And you will cease to exist for all time.”’”

This sounds like it's speaking about Satan. However, I question that because if Satan was one of the cherubs posted at the east of the garden of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life (Gen. 3:24), why would God do that, since that happened AFTER the serpent deceived Eve? Could this dirge in Ezekiel 28 be talking about another unnamed cherub?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:21 am 
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I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.



I don't see where that speaks of this cherub guarding the tree of life, Leaving. Am I missing something?

But this:

"Anointed Covering"

The cover of the ark (Which represents Christ, and the mercy seat, which also represents Christ); and so here Satan was a cherub on the anointed covering of the ark.

Which corroborates what Shelby has shared as she has received regarding Satan being one of the two angels of the ark. Michael being the other ark angel.


Peace to you,
your sister and servant, and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:27 am 
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Oh... nothing written in Genesis states that Satan was one of the cherubim assigned to guard the way back to the tree of life. If that is where your confusion is coming from. He was not that cherub.


Peace again!


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:51 pm 
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if Satan was one of the cherubs posted at the east of the garden of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life


To expound a little more on what dear Tams posted, dear LQ (peace to you, both!), the Adversary was placed IN the garden: remember, he spoke to Eve and afterward was cursed for his part in deceiving her and misleading Adham? JAH would not have assigned a cherub that was CURSED to then turn around and guard something precious to Him. Indeed, this one, the Adversary, showed that he COULDN'T be trusted to guard ANYTHING... or anyONE... precious to the MOST HOLY One of Israel.

So, let's look at the language that dear Tams referred to:

"I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub."

You may not know this (although, I think that if you took a moment and truly thought about it, you'd realize you DID), but just as there were two cherubs posted to guard the way back into the garden (in Eden), there were also two "covering" cherubs. NOT cherubs that were covering something, but cherubs in relation TO a covering. Let me show you:

"Bezalel made the ark of acacia wood—two and a half cubits long, a cubit and a half wide, and a cubit and a half high. He overlaid it with pure gold, both inside and out, and made a gold molding around it. He cast four gold rings for it and fastened them to its four feet, with two rings on one side and two rings on the other. Then he made poles of acacia wood and overlaid them with gold. And he inserted the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark to carry it.

"He made the atonement cover of pure gold—two and a half cubits long and a cubit and a half wide. Then he made two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. He made one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; at the two ends he made them of one piece with the cover. The cherubim had their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim faced each other, looking toward the cover."
Ezekiel 37:1-9

The key to understanding this cherub, then, is to understand BOTH cherubs... the Ark (of the Covenant)... and most importantly, the COVER.

In reading the account, we can see that the Ark had a cover on which were placed two cherubs, one at each end. This feature was carved out of ONE piece of wood. And so, it was a UNIFIED item. Here are some verses that might help you "see", so as to understand... WHO these items represented.

First, the cherubs. Notice, their wings spread upward "overshadowing" the cover. They were turned facing each other, with their faces toward the cover. Now, look at the following, John 8:44 from the NIV:

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Most of us (and certainly you), probably recall it this was (from the NWT):

"You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie."

That is actually a more accurate rendering. The word used in the NIV as "holding" and the NWT as "stand fast" is the Greek histēmi, I will leave it to you to look up its (many) meaning(s) here: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lex ... 2476&t=KJV

The point is that this individual, the "Devil," did not stand fast, firm, set... in the truth. Well, not quite. The Greek word for "in"... en... also means "with." j

So, let's restate that part of the verse like this:

"he did not stand fast WITH the truth."

But then, that seems to suggest that he didn't stand fast with... someone. Yes? Okay, now let's look at another verse, this one where Daniel is engage in conversation:

"When he spoke to me, I was strengthened and said, “Speak, my lord, since you have given me strength.”

So he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. (No one supports me against them except Michael, your prince."
Daniel 10:19-21

Or, from the NWT (which really is more accurate):

"And as soon as he spoke with me I exerted my strength and finally said: “Let my lord speak, because you have strengthened me.” So he went on to say: “Do you really know why I have come to you? And now I shall go back to fight with the prince* of Persia. When I am going forth, look! also the prince of Greece* is coming. However, I shall tell you the things noted down in the writing of truth, and [u]there is no one holding strongly with me in these [things] but Mi′cha·el[/u], the prince of YOU people."

In these two verses you see two beings, one NOT "standing fast" with the truth... the other "holding strongly with" Christ (the One speaking to Daniel). Christ IS the Truth, so what you are seeing in these verses is one entity NOT standing with... or holding fast to... or SUPPORTING... Christ... and another entity standing with/supporting/holding strongly with... Christ.

These are the two cherubs of the ARK, dear LQ. The two ARKangels: Mischa'JAH'El... and Beli'JAH'El. One did NOT keep HIS face toward... or stand fast/strongly/in support of... the cover... and the other DID. What do I mean by "the cover"? Perhaps these verses will help you "see":

"He made the atonement cover of pure gold..."

Another word for "atonement" is "propitiatory." So, Bezalel made the PROPITIATORY (or atonement) COVER of pure gold. Now, if the cherubs ON the cover represent actual beings... stands to reason the COVER does, as well, yes? Okay, so:

“He is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world’s.” 1 John 2:2

"Christ did not enter into a holy place made with hands, which is a copy of the reality, but into heaven itself, so that he now appears before God on our behalf.

"... he has manifested himself once for all time at the conclusion of the systems of things* to do away with sin through the sacrifice of himself.

"Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation."



Christ is the Truth, dear one (John 14:6). One entity did not "stand fast with"... or support... the TRUTH. He did not stand fast with... or support... CHRIST. And we know there is one who did oppose our dear Lord. Another entity DID stand fast with... or "support" our dear Lord, the Truth. These two entities eventually battled with ONE ANOTHER:

"... war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back."Revelation 12:10

This was NOT our dear Lord battling the "dragon" (or "drakon"), because HE had been caught away to the FATHER:

"The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne Revelation 12:4, 5

So, now, let's look at the ENTIRE image of the Ark. Well, at least part of it:

The COVER... is Christ. The "propitiatory"... or mercy/atonment... cover.

The CHERUBS... are the two (2) ANGELS ("cherub" is a rank... very high... of spirit being) of the Ark... or ARKangels. And so you have:

1. Mischa'JAH'El (which means "One who is chosen by the God, JAH" but more ACCURATELY, "One who CHOOSES JAH (as his) God" - "Mischa" meaning "chosen"), who stood fast WITH and SUPPORTED... i.e., kept HIS face TOWARD the Cover... Christ, the TRUTH... and;

2. Beli'JAH'El (which means, "One who is WithOUT JAH (as his) God")... who did NOT stand fast with... or support... Christ... but turned his face AWAY from the Cover (Christ)... and so OPPOSED that One.

The Cover and two cherubs were made of ONE piece of wood, dear one. Again, indicating the intent of them being UNIFIED. One "piece" CHOSE to SEVERE that unity by turning HIS face AWAY. Rather than keeping his gaze "on the copper serpent"... he turned to look... at someone ELSE. Do you know WHO? The verses you quoted at the outset tell us:

"Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.
You corrupted your wisdom[/i] because of your own glorious splendor[/u]."


Rather than keeping his face toward and thus his gaze on the COVER... he began to look at, marvel, and revel... in his OWN beauty! He began to believe he was "all that" ("SURELY, I am BLESSED! I mean, LOOK AT ME!!"). He should have known better, though. As Samuel should have, after JAH turned His spirit away from King Saul:

"And Samuel proceeded to do what JaHVeH spoke. When he came to Beth′le•hem the older men of the city began to tremble at meeting him, and so they said: “Does your coming mean peace?” To this he said: “It means peace. To sacrifice to JaHVeH is why I have come. Sanctify yourselves, and YOU must come with me to the sacrifice.” Then he sanctified Jes′se and his sons, after which he called them to the sacrifice. And it came about that, as they came in and he caught sight of E•li′ab, he at once said: “Surely his anointed one is before JaHVeH.” But JaHVeH said to Samuel: “Do not look at his appearance and at the height of his stature, for I have rejected him. For not the way man sees [is the way God sees], because mere man sees what appears to the eyes; but as for JaHVeH, he sees what the heart is.”

Mischa'JAH'El, however, kept his face toward the Cover. Toward Christ. And so, stood fast and supported our dear Lord. ALWAYS. Which is why our Lord told Daniel that he (Christ) had no one BUT Mischa'JAH'El to help him.

I hope this has helped you to "see" some things [a bit] better, dear brother. The Cover... and the cherubs (of the Ark). Again, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, would not have taken the one of these that did NOT stand fast with and support Christ, the Tree of LIFE, but deceived and misled the humans in the garden to OPPOSE HIM... and do their OWN will... and place that entity as a guard [back into] the garden, with access to the Tree of Life. Again, that one PROVED he could NOT be trusted with something SO valuable and important.

Peace to you and to your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:05 pm 
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Ok, all this makes partial sense. I must be confusing the cherubs placed east of Eden to guard the way to the tree of life with that of the cherubs above the Ark. The only places in the Bible that places cherubs in Eden are in Genesis 3:24 and in Ezekiel 28. It seemed the two were related.

However, the Ark of the Covenant was made long after Eve was deceived in Eden. How could Satan be one of those two cherubs? I'm having an issue with timing.

If I understand what you are saying, that the Ark / Holy / Most Holy was a copy of reality, thus it would have only been in heaven PRIOR to the creation of man himself that Satan would have been a cherub on the heavenly Ark. But would he be represented on the physical Ark? I'm thinking not.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:54 pm 
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the Ark of the Covenant was made long after Eve was deceived in Eden.


The physical representation of the Ark, yes, dear brother (peace to you!). But not the TRUE Ark that such was depicting. Let me show you:

"JaHVeH said to Moses, '...have them make a sanctuary for me, and I will dwell among them. Make this tabernacle and all its furnishings exactly like the pattern I will show you.' ... 'Have them make an ark of acacia wood...'" Exodus 25:8, 9

"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." Ecclesiastes 1:9[/9]

"Whatever is [b]has already been
,
and what will be has been before Ecclesiastes 3:15

My point? The tabernacle and temple (at Jerusalem) were not new; they were replicas. Of things already existing (in the spirit realm)... and would exist again in that realm. They are all things made of PEOPLE, spirit or human; however, there was NO way Moses could have constructed them of people. So, JAH gave him patterns from which Moses could build physical REPRESENTATIONS. For example:

The tabernacle = a temporary place for JAH to dwell = fleshly Israel
The temple = a permanent place for JAH to dwell = spiritual Israel
The MOST Holy = JAH Himself
The HOLY = Christ
The Ark = the womb of the Woman = JAH's free wife, "Sarah" = the spirit realm
The Cover = Christ, the "Propitiatory" or mercy seat (of atonement)
The Cherubs on the Cover = the two angels of the Ark or "arkangels" = Mischa'JAH'El and Beli'JAH'El
The High Priest = Christ
The Altar = the "high place" on which sacrifices were made, particularly that of the Lamb (who takes away the sins of the world)
Under the Altar = the place of protection = under the wings of JAH
The Priests = the members of the Body of Christ
The Bronze Sea = the glassy sea in front of the throne of JAH

and so on.

EVERY feature of the tabernacle and temple was a representation of a PERSON... or PERSONS. Using people, however, would not only have been virtually impossible for Moses, but most importantly, not UNDERSTOOD by the people. Remember, these were people who walked by SIGHT... not by FAITH (remember the golden calf?). And so, they not only had to be given physical REPRESENTATIONS... but had to have the Law WRITTEN OUT (on stone). Those before them, however... Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... did not. Those walked by FAITH, and so had the Law "written" ON THEIR HEARTS.

Because Israel so seriously lacked faith, JAH had to have Moses built anitypes... emblems and icons they could SEE. Unfortunately, that very need is what rendered them BLIND as to the TRUTH... SPIRIT(NESS)... of these things. They were SO dependent on what they could PHYSICALLY see, they were never able to see what they TRULY represented. Even down to this day.

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How could Satan be one of those two cherubs? I'm having an issue with timing.


The Ark existed in the SPIRIT... before it existed "in the flesh" (i.e., physically). How so? Because the "Ark" is the womb... of the Woman. The place IN which... everything was CREATED. And from which our dear Lord was born. "It" existed BEFORE creation. Christ was created to COVER... protect (what was inside) it. The two cherubs were SUPPOSED to stand fast WITH him in protecting (what was inside) it.

What was inside it? The SEED... of the Woman. And who was this seed supposed to be protected FROM? Paul answered that:

"Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." Ephesians 6:11, 12

It is because of these spiritual forces of evil that the creation was MADE: to HIDE the seed... until the time it could be FERTILIZED (with JAH's seed, holy spirit) and be brought to LIFE. In the meantime, it is treasure (hidden) in earthen vessels. Originally placed here to be out of REACH of those enemy spirit forces. Those spirit forces were not SUPPOSED to be able to access this seed. Because their AIM... was to DESTROY it. So that they could destroy the ONE among it that would lead the way in bringing THEM to NOTHING. But... Adham let the enemy in:

"... sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come." Romans 5:12-14

"The last enemy to be destroyed is death." 1 Corinthians 15:26

What many don't understand, Death... is ALSO a person. ALL of these things represent a PERSON (or persons and either spirit beings or human beings)... or parts of a person.

Once a person begins to understand the TRUTH of this, can RECEIVE it... many other things start becoming (more) clear. The Apostles and first century Body understood it, as did Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, the Prophets, etc. The Apostles came to understand it once they received holy spirit and had the spirit realm OPENED to them, as a result. Prior to that, our dear Lord told them:

"I have many things to tell you... but you are not able to BEAR them."

Or even receive them. Eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a PERSON? It took GREAT faith to receive that. Praise JAH, the early Body WAS able to receive that. They understood why they were given emblems, rather than having to actually eat the flesh and drink the blood of a man, spirit OR human. But they also understood what those emblems REPRESENTED: the actual flesh and blood of a man, albeit a spirit, their Lord and ours, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah).

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If I understand what you are saying, that the Ark / Holy / Most Holy was a copy of reality, thus it would have only been in heaven PRIOR to the creation of man himself that Satan would have been a cherub on the heavenly Ark.


YES!!!!! He was a cherub created to HELP the Cover. REINFORCE it... him... against the enemies that wanted the CONTENT (the seed):

"Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

"... he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? Soon I will return to fight against the prince of Persia, and when I go, the prince of Greece will come; but first I will tell you what is written in the Book of Truth. But no one supports me against them except Michael, your [people's] prince."
Daniel 10:12-21

Quote:
But would he be represented on the physical Ark? I'm thinking not.


He was... because that is how the Ark WAS. That was the TRUTH. He did not REMAIN in his position, no - he was removed. Violently. Revelation 12:7-12

I realize these truths might be hard to grasp. That is primarily because those who deigned to TEACH you (as to God and Christ), did not TEACH you the truth. They didn't... because they couldn't... because THEY don't know. It's also because we are creatures who depend largely on SIGHT. And so unless we SEE a thing (or trust that others who say they have seen it truly have)... we often find it difficult to BELIEVE.

Hence... faith. And walking by faith. I have come not only to know of these things, but have had the privilege of SEEING them... because I BELIEVED my dear Lord when he TOLD me. BEFORE I saw their realities. He said it was so... to me... and I believed HIM. Were they always easy to... ummmmm... "see"? No. But that didn't matter: he said it was thus and so, he's never lied to me, and so, I accepted it. Received it. WITHOUT question or doubt. And as a REWARD (for that faith), he then SHOWED me. Sometimes right away, sometimes after a bit. Sometimes... after a few years. But that didn't matter - I knew he WOULD give me SOME proof. SOME "evident demonstration" of the reality. So I didn't NEED to see... "behold" it. He said it... and THAT was assurance enough for ME.

I hope, dear, dear brother, that you, too, will come to the point where your faith is not based on what you see... but on what our dear Lord says to YOU. That you can LISTEN... and simply put FAITH in what he says... EVEN if it SEEMS far-fetched. Even out of this world. Beyond fathoming. If you do... WHEN you do... I cannot tell you the wonders and truths that will be "opened" to you as a result.

But it starts with faith, dear one. And only the size of a mustard seed. Thing is... most of mankind don't even have that. I certainly didn't. I THOUGHT I had... but then he kindly told me that what tiny bit of faith I did have... that added UP to a mustard seed... HE gave to me. Galatians 5:22; John 20:22; Acts 2:2-4; John 15:4-8; 1 Corinthians 4:7; Matthew 10:8

Peace to you... and to your household!

YSSFS of Christ

Shel


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:30 am 
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Greetings and good evening to you all...


As to the visible/physical representations being replicas of what already WAS in the spiritual realm another verse our Lord reminded me of was...

Heb 11:3 NIV
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

OR:

NWT
By faith we perceive that the system of things were put in order by Gods Word, so that what is BEHELD has come out of things that do not appear.


Wonderful conversation and sharing you all...

Peace and love to you all,
Your sister and fellow servant of Jaheshua MischaJah, Kim g:)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:54 am 
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THANK you, dear, dear 'Mom, for those corroborating verses!

Peace to you and to your dear, dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:20 am 
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Thanks again. I can accept all of this without any problem.

I just came to realize that the cherubs were posted east of the garden of Eden, but Eden apparently was larger than just the garden. There are other verses that refer to the people of Eden. Interesting to note... more of a piece of trivia than anything else.

Question, though: is the "garden of God" in Ezekiel 28:13 also the "paradise of God" in Revelation 2:7? Related question: is this heavenly paradise also called "Eden"?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:03 pm 
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the cherubs were posted east of the garden of Eden, but Eden apparently was larger than just the garden.


Yes, dear LQ (peace to you!). The garden was IN Eden:

Now JaHVeH had planted a garden in the east, in Eden

Quote:
There are other verses that refer to the people of Eden. Interesting to note... more of a piece of trivia than anything else.


A bit more trivia - there was more than one Eden: the Eden in which the garden was planted, and the land occupied by the sons of Eden, the son of Joah. However, the references to the "people of Eden" are to the descendants of Adham, through Seth. East of the land of Eden was the land of Nod, belonging to the descendants of Cain.

Quote:
Question, though: is the "garden of God" in Ezekiel 28:13 also the "paradise of God" in Revelation 2:7?


Yes, dear brother. The garden planted by JAH in Eden was a SPIRITUAL place. JAH formed Adham OUTSIDE, then brought him INSIDE, then cast him outside again, into a world that became cursed. That garden was a small piece of the Jerusalem ABOVE... placed in the physical realm (literally, heaven... ON earth). The cherub of Ezekiel 28... Beli'JAH'El... was SUPPOSED to protect the contents of that garden: the seed. Particularly, along with the OTHER cherub, he was supposed to "stand fast" and SUPPORT the Tree of Life in the middle of the Garden (i.e., the Son of God, the HEAD seed of the Woman's "child" - the "Woman" being JAH's FREE wife, the SPIRIT realm - "Sarah").

By connection, therefore, he was also responsible for protecting the two humans, Adham and Eve. Not because Adham and Eve were that seed; they were not: Adham was the seed of JAH's SLAVE "wife" - the PHYSICAL realm... or "Hagar". He was to SUPPORT the TREE...provided a COVER for Adham and Eve. Protected them. Because THEY carried WITHIN them... the BODY of that "child": the REST of the "Woman's" seed. Hence, Adham was a kind of (temporary) "ark" and in eating from the Tree of LIFE... he maintained life FOR that seed in him.

When Eve was taken OUT of him, the seed was in HER. And that cherub was SUPPOSED to support the Cover, Christ (the Tree of Life - John 14:6; 15:1-7), which cover protected the (rest of) the seed. Instead, the cherub turned his face AWAY from the Cover... and toward himself. In doing so, he desired the attention and OBEDIENCE that rightfully belonged to the Cover. So, he tricked one... and brokered a deal with the other... that led to such obedience. Unfortunately, that obedience also resulted in disobedience to JAH... for which the two lost their lives AND that of the seed within them. Not that they lost such lives because JAH punished them for their act but in not obeying His WARNING they ate from a Tree the eating of which led to their deaths and that of their progeny.

But not ALL of the seed lost their lives. Those who belong to the Woman (versus those who belong to Eve, from HER mother, "Hagar," for the two were allowed to exist together, Eve being a surrogate for the Woman's seed), have and will survive... and claim their right to ETERNAL life. How so? By returning to their FATHER, for Him to "fertilize" them with HIS seed: holy spirit.

Quote:
Related question: is this heavenly paradise also called "Eden"?


No, dear one. In the physical realm, the garden was planted in the place IN THE PHYSICAL realm called "Eden." In the spirit realm, it is what we call in English... "Zion." The "holy mountain" of God. On top of this mountain "sits" the Beloved City, the NEW Jerusalem. Let me show you:

Earth ("Hagar"; the physical realm) --> on earth, Eden --> in Eden, the garden --> in the midst of the garden, the Tree of Life --> the Tree of Life = the Temple of God

Jerusalem Above ("Sarah"; the spirit realm) --> in heaven, Zion --> in Zion, the NEW Jerusalem --> in the midst of the Beloved City, Temple of God

I realize that doing ANYTHING the WTBTS SAYS may seem anathema, but I am going to ask you do one thing, in the spirit of our dear Lord's words recorded at Matthew 23:2, 3. And that is to try and see "with your mind's 'eye.'" Because that is what faith IS, sometimes. What it requires: being assured of the thing hoped for... based on the EVIDENT DEMONSTRATION OF REALITIES... though NOT BEHELD. Not seen with one's PHYSICAL'S eyes... but with one's SPIRITUAL eyes.

THEN... after one has EXERCISED faith in what one was shown in SPIRIT... one will be rewarded... and given eyes to see PHYSICALLY.

We have to do the work first. Exercise faith... FIRST. THEN... receive "payment." We exercise our faith, when we DO whatever it is God tells us to DO. And HE said:

"This is my Son, the beloved - LISTEN to him."

I hope this helps, truly.

As always, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:06 pm 
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If I lived in Noah's time
or earlier in Enoch's time
the scriptures
ALL the scriptures
amounted to only a few pages
(compared to hundreds in today's Bible)
And contained not much in the way of laws
or rules
for what good thoughts guided Enoch
and Noah's family
were just a handful of principles
probably including "love thy neighbor"
and the rest
just faith
since I don't really see "love thy neighbor"
anywhere there in the early scriptures
yet it must have been understood
or Christ would not have summed up all laws
into that one principle.

Also, loved your discussion on this particular
scripture in Ezekiel.
My instructor was not well schooled
but his anointed mother endowed him much insight,
so the two elders questioning me for baptism
were shocked
when I quoted this scripture to describe Satan.
Both were highly experienced elders
but had never before seen this scripture
applied to Satan.
Thanks, Shelby.

Lastly
yes
as the two cherubs on the cover
recorded the role of cherub later known as The Opposer
so too as we look up at the night sky
we admire blue stars, pink nebulae, spiral galaxies
and a host of other great works
built long ago by what is now
Satan (The Opposer) and myriads of demons.
God has not censored the ancient light
that yet reach our telescopes,
which like the Ark
remains forever a record of their past roles.

_________________
"For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law . . . They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts" (Romans 2:14-15)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:06 pm 
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TWO scriptures... or laws... dear Wheels (peace to you, dear one!), neither of which were written on stone, papyrus, velum, or paper... but on HEARTS:

"You must love God (the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies) with your WHOLE heart, soul (body), mind, and strength, and you must love your neighbor AS yourself."

Your neighbor... being even your enemy (per the parable of the "Good" Samaritan).

Glad the truth as to the Adversary's... appointment... resonated with you.

Peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar


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