xjwsforChrist

ATALOA SAID

I didn't want to comment on this on the other forum because the thread starter was trying so hard to keep it on topic, but that was a very interesting thought on the baby teeth.

The whole cremation thing has bothered me for the past couple of years; then I saw some of the information Aguest posted about it and thought it made sense (I miss a whole lot of the discussions though; can't wade through a bunch of arguing stuff).

I guess I was a little worried after that, and I definitely don't want cremation for myself, but I guess I always thought that the creator would take care of stuff like that. But I just like that thought about the baby teeth.

I do have a thought on that though. My brother-in-law never lost his baby teeth.

Also last year my favorite uncle and one of my ex-husbands died; my uncle was cremated; ex husband I presume was buried. Somehow it has bothered me more to think of the ex lying there rotting away; I never think anything disturbing like that when I think of my uncle's grave. Just some rambling thoughts.

PSACRAMENTO SAID

What's the issue on creamation ?

SAB SAID

I always thought that the Egyptians had a good reason for preserving their bodies after death. I feel like it was much more than superstition.

-Sab

AGUEST SAID


Fire destroys the spirit, dear P (peace to you!):

"Do not fear him that can kill the body but be in fear of Him who can destroy the body AND the spirit in Gehenna!"

Which is why:

- Water, and not fire, was sent during Noah's day
- Fire was used to destroy Sodom/Gomorrah
- Satan, the wild beast, and the false prophet are cast into the Lake of
Fire
- Those whose names aren't written in the Lamb's book are also sent to
the Lake of Fire

Hence, the Hebrews/Jews always buried their dead... and even made sure that Joseph's bones were returned to the land given Abraham (so that when he arose, he would be where his land was).

Burning the dead was something practiced by the nations... and something JAH said (when Israel began to do this to their own children) had never come up into HIS heart.

The value of land... and treacherous dealing of those who prepare and bury the dead... has caused man to seek more convenient and cost-effective ways of dealing with their dead: cremation. Complete burning. When we die, if we are buried all that we are in the body returns to dust. Except... the bones. These remain, unless they are pulverized by some means (weather, wind, etc.). With cremation, for those bodies whose bones do not completely burn, the remains are pulverized to dust.

Even do, once burned, the life... that was IN those bones... is destroyed. Hence, there is nothing for JAH/Christ TO resurrect. That is because every bit of life (spirit)... is dried up. True, Ezekiel saw "dry" bones, but they were no SO dry that NO life existed in them - they only needed a bit of "CPR"... which occurred when JAH blew HIS spirit back into them (as He did with Adham); with that, they came to life (as did Adham).

This utter destruction of the spirit... ALL life in them... was the reason Nebuchadnezzar tried to make the fire he had Daniel, Hananiah, Azariah, and Mishael put into SO hot - that fire was SO hot that the men OUTSIDE were burned up! He wanted to UTTERLY destroy them... not just in body but also in SPIRIT. He wasn't able to, however (and how that was is perhaps another post/thread, but I will share it if anyone wonders).

I could not see how any who were so burned could be resurrected, given what I was told about the utter destruction burning causes. I could only rely on JAH's mercy... that not all who had underwent such a thing were indeed destroyed forever. And then dear Tec... who went farther and ASKED... shared what SHE received about it with me a bit ago!

And my heart has been rejoicing ever since! Because... JAH IS merciful! NOTHING is impossible with Him... and now I know that even more!

So, there you go! I hope this helps.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

PSACRAMENTO SAID

Hmmm, so ANY fire destroys the spirit?
It seems to me that when we die the (our) spirit returns to God, if it returns to God it is NOT "held" in our bones.
People that die in fire, their spirit is killed?
Those that are killed in explosions and their bones are pulverized such as what happens with thermo explosives, their spirits are dead?

SAB SAID

PaulSacramento wrote:
Hmmm, so ANY fire destroys the spirit?
It seems to me that when we die the (our) spirit returns to God, if it returns to God it is NOT "held" in our bones.
People that die in fire, their spirit is killed?
Those that are killed in explosions and their bones are pulverized such as what happens with thermo explosives, their spirits are dead?


I wouldn't say that their spirit was destroyed, but they certainly cannot have THAT body back. It was a stroke of genius of the Egyptians to preserve their dead through mummification AND put a bunch of riches with them in the grave.

It's almost like they were asking for their graves to be robbed so that their bodies could be transported. There was a demand for mummies in the 1800s, so much so that merchants would travel entire countries in search of people to purchase their mummies and artifacts from sites they robbed.

Astoundingly many mummies today are preserved with high end technology being put into air tight containers. Not only are these people adored daily by tourists they also will preserve their bodies into the distant future where reanimation just might be possible. Like I said, a stroke of genius!

Who wouldn't want to meet someone from the time of Egypt? Think about the answers they would have!

-Sab

PSACRAMENTO SAID

RE: Matthew 10:28
You read it as :
"Do not fear him that can kill the body but be in fear of Him who can destroy the body AND the spirit in Gehenna!"
But the word you use for "spirit" is "psychen" in Greek and translated soul ( spirit is Pneuma.

All translations I have read read it as soul and body not spirit and body.

PSACRAMENTO SAID

God who created all, can't give a cremated person back their body?

SAB SAID

No, we are the product billions of years of evolution. It's not like we can just do it over again lickity split.

PSACRAMENTO SAID

Well, that sucks.

SAB SAID

A lot of people are under the false impression that the creation of Adam in Genesis was God constructing a single human being. The creation of Adam as formed from the dust is actually a reference to star dust. It's not coincidence that the word "atom" is extremely phonetically similar to the English word "Adam."

There is a mantra in the secular community that says, "We are all just star dust" or something to that effect. According to current scientific data it's STARS that incubated the first organic matter which started out as a carbon ATOM.

Because of this misconception we are often led to believe that God can simply construct humans one by one when needed. This is NOT the case, we can only be created in one way and that's through the process of that we were made from. Which starts from the Big Bang and ends with the process of evolution manifesting on our planet resulting in lifeforms like you and I. There is no other conceivable way for a human brain to form.

Remember, the body of Christ was NOT in the tomb. It could have been consumed with some sort of energy which destroyed the bones. No one has the bones of Christ so we are to assume they are gone. This could explain why when he came back he did not look exactly like the man he died as. Because that body was gone with no means of recovery.

If you fast forward a couple billion years into our future the lifeforms that exist in the universe will probably not look human at all. They will have continued to evolve and change through time just as we have. To assume that THIS life and THIS body is the best representation of YOU is a limiting concept and doesn't reflect the immensity that is the universe.
_________________
It only ends once everything else is just progress - Jacob, LOST

AGUEST SAID




No, only fire hot enough to all destroy the bones, dear one (peace to you!). Remember, the life is in the blood, the blood is manufactured by the marrow... the marrow is in the bones... thus, the spirit is in the bones. There was a reason for "whole (no broken bones) burnt offerings", dear one.



For those who belong to God, yes! That's WHY it returns to Him, to be protected "under the altar". Which is WHY burning of the body was anathema to Israel.



For those who so return, yes. Not all spirits do, though...


Not necessarily. In most of these instances, there are remains, even if burned badly. But there are some fires SO hot, that nothing remains except a few bone fragments. In cremation, the process includes pulverizing even those few bones fragments. We think it is a process contrived solely by man for convenience and lesser expense/use of land. I promise you, though, it was something put in man's heart for a MUCH more heinous purpose.

Those that are killed in explosions and their bones are pulverized such as what happens with thermo explosives, their spirits are dead?

Prior to dear tec's sharing (peace to you, luv!), I would have said, perhaps, as I could see no way around that. Now, I can. It only takes a tiny bit of spirit, dear one. The same as faith. So, if there is SOME spirit left... SOMEWHERE... it is only sleeping. But if there is NOT... then there is nothing left TO resurrect. Awaken. Regardless of the body it might have afterward.

You read it as :
"Do not fear him that can kill the body but be in fear of Him who can destroy the body AND the spirit in Gehenna!"
But the word you use for "spirit" is "psychen" in Greek and translated soul ( spirit is Pneuma.

All translations I have read read it as soul and body not spirit and body.

The psyche(n) is the person themself, dear one. The spirit is the life force OF the person. The verse is saying that there are those who can kill the BODY, but not the person; that God, however, can destroy both the BODY... AND the person. The body is just the vessel that HOLDS the person... the life... in it. If the body AND the person is destroyed... so, too, the SPIRIT... or life force... OF the person.

That is why FIRE comes down and DESTROYS Gog and Magog; why Satan, et al., and those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book are cast into the "Lake"... of fire... versus one of water: water only confines spirits - fire destroys utterly. Why fire was used at Sodom and Gomorrah. Used in Elijah's contest with the Baal worshippers. Why Nebuchadnezzar had a fiery furnace created for Daniel, et al.

But, I would say to you as I always do - please do not take MY word for this. Do, perhaps, as dear tec did... and ask for yourself. Indeed, HER asking led to ME now knowing how JAH can exercise mercy!

Unlike skin and sinew, bone does not simply disintegrate into dust. Unlike bone... teeth... are not susceptible to fire. Indeed, dental records are how most badly burned fire victims are identified!

And now this about baby teeth?! Think of all of those children... of Sodom/Gomorrah... East Indian and Native American cultures... the Holocaust... Vietnam... and those subjected to modern cremation! No, they will NOT have to lose out on a resurrection due to others' decisions as to their bodies!

Do we know where the baby teeth of all who HAVE be so subjected are? No. But WE don't have to!

Again, I totally understand how this might be difficult for you to grasp, dear P. It was for me, at first, and for some others when I shared it. You have a Way of knowing though - take it to that One.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

TEC SAID

Have not read anything on the thread other than the OP, so to Ataloa, regarding those who have not lost baby teeth (perhaps did not even age to the point where they got those yet)... I do not know the provision, though I believe it has to do with the spirit of these ones (I am reminded of the passage that their angels in heaven always see the face of God... though I don't know exactly what this is supposed to mean) But I trust that there is provision, just as I trusted that there was a provision the first time Shelby posted about this, and as has been shown to me that the wisdom and mercy of God at various times and with various questions.

I was going to post that along with the original post that I made on jwn, because that would be one of the first things someone would ask and need a response. But no one commented at all, so I had nothing to respond to.

Peace and love to you,

tammy

LOZ SAID

This is all new information for me. I am diligently reading and thinking and asking about it. I had some time ago made my feelings against cremation known to those who matter, but that seemed to me to just be my personal feelings about it.
Interesting about the baby teeth Tammy, I don't think I have any left lol. It still feels a little arbitrary though, maybe?

Loz x
_______

TEC SAID

Sometimes it does and sometimes I get it. However, there have been many things that I have thought arbitrary in the past, and yet... I discover that it was only what i was not understanding that led me to think that.

Such as needing to have faith to be healed. I used to say to myself... (silently)... isn't that a bit arbitrary? What is the point of this condition?
The loving point of this condition, that is.

The point... is that faith IN someone is acceptance of them. You let them IN, rather than block them out. Like a person with trust issues... holds others at arm's length, instead of letting them in.

With what Shelby revealed as to the blood and spirit of Christ that performed a sort of transfusion with those he healed, that helped me to see this as well. If his spirit/blood must enter you to heal you, but you block or deny that which will heal you, then you cannot be healed.

You NEED the faith to grant Him access so as TO heal you. It is not arbitrary at all.

Peace to you,
tammy