xjwsforChrist

SAB SAID

Everyone who reads these words I consider my friend. This post will discuss, and open for discussion, the definition of the word "CULT."

Now, I am aware that there are levels to this word, but for the purposes of this discussion the word is used in it's most negative and destructive connotation. While this website is dedicated to Jehovah's Witnesses, this post is directed at all victims of high control groups. For it covers the fundamentals on what makes a cult dangerous.

Steven Hassan has done an incredible amount of research in this field and I have never read anything he has written that I disagreed with. I have, however, wanted to add to his scientific narrative as I am sure so many others have as well. This has been done many times over in each generation of Watchtower apostates and I have tried to watch and get my hands on all of it. Albeit there is just too much for one person to learn in a life time.

I have done my best to devote the better part of 2 years to the fervent study of my past cult, the Scripture it focused on and my own environment, both political and economical. I have engaged with specialists and the educated in this matter both online and in my own life. I have challenged their ideas and recorded what they said and how they said it. I consider myself learned on this subject.

I, like so many on this planet, was expelled from my religion. For some this simply means death, but for me it was a more complicated experience. In my world upon falling into sin there is opportunity for repentance. This creates a dilemma when you do not agree on what your religious environment calls a sin. This is what most call apostasy. When you stand away from what you were previously doing. When you don't feel in your heart that what you are doing deserves an apology and your peers disagree. A standoff.

The mind is put in a morally precarious situation while in this juncture. There are many different choices suddenly put before it. I know because I was in this position not too long ago. As I look back I consider myself to most certainly have been in a sort of psychological haze. My mind did not work rationally and it's almost eerie to look back upon a person you no longer are. The apostate is free. Free from the oppression that was put on them for so long. Yet, freedom comes at a high price, such seems to be the nature of things.

In such a scenario the choices put before the individual are always by others. When this becomes obvious the real choice is clear and that is the one between "us and them." Everything beyond that is merely a game. What's really happening is a line being drawn in the sand.

This forum has been accused of being a cult. However, they are deceived. I know this because there is no line in the sand and I know where to look for them. Here, ideas are freely accepted, criticism is regulated and positivity aggressively encouraged.

In the world of Science there are many levels of understanding on this topic. It sometimes can get pretty convoluted. Really, it all starts with an idea and then an imposition of an ideal. The brain is a marvelous invention and it will naturally influence the right people into the right directions. No coercion is needed. There is a natural ebb and flow to life that should not be disturbed.

An idea needs a leader to come to be. Someone that people can congregate around to help it grow. Eventually, the idea is seeded into the population, but it always starts from one person, one marvelous brain. That's why we erect statues of PEOPLE, because they honor the way ideas come into the world. That's why we write myths and embellish the past, because reality doesn't do itself justice. It just is and that's boring. That's where WE come in and WE center around people who WE consider to be great.

We ARE our ideas, that's why we protect them as if they were our children. This is why cults come to be because an idea is being protected. The question is do we use unethical means to protect them? Do we have to? Where do we draw the line?

What got me booted out of my family and religion was questioning their definitions of apostasy and seeking out the like minded. I thought that we applied the term to too many people and found others that agreed with me. This GOT me the apostate tag, which in retrospect I should have seen coming. Really, I was testing the lines and measuring the reaction which ended up in my expulsion from their circle of trust. I got my answer, as so many have. Brought out in the back and shot, check.

The people of the Watchtower congregate around one group of men in Brooklyn New York. They believe them to be their salvation, but what they really are is a collective case of stockholm syndrome. What's happening is a perfectly natural phenomenon being abused by men. People naturally gravitate towards the charismatic. What the GB are doing serves as a demonstration of power and authority which is VERY real. They exist solely upon the ideas of fear and lies and it's a breathtaking thing to witness. We need God to help us from them. There is no sword that can defend against THAT. As Gandalf said in the caves of Moria, "This foe is beyond any of you. RUN!"

The real question is how do WE not end up like THEM? As a religious forum we dabble in what they do. So, what EXACTLY sets us apart? Some laugh at this place from afar and accuse us as more of the same. Are we?

My answer is a resounding NO. Simply because this place has no restrictive boundaries. We do have boundaries such as a requirement for civility, yet common sense can dictate such an environment, you just need moderators who can live and die by common sense. Our boundaries are designed to open up discussion, not niche or silence it.

I take such an accusation incredibly seriously and it has sparked a lot of thought on my part. Yet, admittingly to deny such an accusation implies that one fully understands what a dangerous cult is.

So, what is a cult? Really?

-Sab

PSACRAMENTO SAID

Well, one can argue that there are good cults and bad cults.
A cult is any group that has an exclusive or elitist attitude.


cult
[kuhlt] Show IPA
noun
1.
a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2.
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.
the object of such devotion.
4.
a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.
Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symb

PSACRAMENTO SAID

In the Martial Arts there are many cults, some withing systems, some withing the specific family lineages.The Chinese MA have quite a few of them.
Blood oathes, secret ceremonies, things like that.
The Jw cult has NOTHING on them, take my word for it.
I could tell you some stories my friend, LOL !
If you truly want to understand a cult then "warrior cults" and "secret societies" are the way to go.

The thing is, the one thing that all cults have in common is that you need the members approval to get in (ie, you are brought in by a member typiclaly) and once you leave, you are out and now way back in ( unless you repent sort of speaking). Of course some cults are extreme and there is no way out other than death.

People throw the world around a lot but very few truly grasp what a real cult is.

JUSTMOM SAID





Hello Dear Sab

And thank you for the kind introduction. I enjoyed seeing your picture and family also

First I would like to agree that I know there are many out there that feel this site is a cult also. Given the latin definition of the word "cult"
...A particular system of religious worship especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies/a group bound together by veneration of the same thing,person,ideal.
Some say that IS us also.

But can you truly compare the FREEDOM that you have in knowing Christ to a cult? What system of worship is there other than to love God with your whole heart, soul and mind? And to love your neighbor as yourself? What kind of LAWS are there in HIM other that The Law of LOVE?" And in knowing the TRUE Christ, what sanctions or punishment is there for not believing in him?

In religion in general, if you identify yourself with a certain denomination, then you must follow the specific beliefs and practices of that religion.

Yes, certain religions tend to be more passive than others as to enforcing doctrines, but control is still control.

In coming out of the WTBS I have understood that "ALL" religions tend to be Cults. Just some WAY worse than others. And the WTBS is top on MY list. As it uses devious phycological techniques to gain and control adherents. Demanding your life and denying you of your everlasting life through Christ, by denying you entrance into the covenant.

I appreciate your thoughts as to this forum as EVERYONE has the freedom to agree or disagree and we are ALL Okay with this as we owe nothing but love and understanding to each other.

Just wanted to add some thoughts on your subject and share that since coming out of organized religion (WTBS) which all do tend to be "cultish" is some way or another..... I can NEVER compare the freedom that I now have in Christ to anything I could ever experience in religion again!

Love Justmom

PSACRAMENTO SAID



If I may:
In society in general, if you identify yourself with a certain denomination, then you must follow the specific beliefs and practices of that group.
or:
In a given culture in general, if you identify yourself with that certain culture, then you must follow the specific beliefs and practices of that culture.
and perhaps more appropriate:
In spirituality in general, if you identify yourself with a certain spiritual view, then you must follow the specific beliefs and practices of that form of spirituality.

I can go one but the point is made no

JUSTMOM SAID

Yes paul I agree.....
When it comes to "spirituality" it is you that chooses or not to follow the specific belief and practice. But it is you ALONE and whatever another chooses is up to him. Whether to follow or not. But that is the difference between "spirituality" and "religion". There is (greater) freedom in spirituality than in religion. Noone will mark or disfellowship or excommunicate you if you choose not to believe.

just my .02 cents
justmom

PSACRAMENTO SAID

There are religions that are very free.
Look, I know that for some people the term "religion" has a negative sound, simply because for some reason people have associated negativity to it.
Religion:

re·li·gion
[ri-lij-uh n] Show IPA
noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

If you practice spirituality guess what, you are practicing a religion.

I am religious and I have as much freedom about how and why and where and when I practice it as anyone claiming to be spiritual.

It's an argument for semantics because of public perception.
People think spirituality and they think new age hippies doing their own thing.
People think religion and they think a rigid clerical hierarchy controlling people.

Since we does peoples perception of something make that something?

People thinking you are crazy makes you crazy?
People perceiving this site as a cult, makes it a cult?

JUSTMOM SAID

Great Post Paul, Thanks!

I guess what I am understanding for ME is that since my walk in life NOW is not through a predetermined set of doctrines determined by a group or sect and since the one I follow is Christ and in his preaching he talked about a time that would come when the "Jewish system" (religion) would no longer be the means to worship God through... I for my part and I speak for me is that walking by faith, not sight and trying to live the love of Christ in my day to day living is a challenge enough without needing to follow anything "written" or answer to any "man/men"
If you feel great freedom in your religion then, I am happy for you. When it all comes down to it, it is our actions from the heart and nothing anyone tells us we HAVE to do.

Thanks for that
justmom

SAB SAID


To me the above verse describes the cardinal attribute of a cult and that's the practice of population control. If you tried to convince a Nazi guard that it was all a lie, you might be able to do it. However, the guard exists in an environment where the population is controlled by IDEOLOGY. Therefore, even though the guard can be convinced, you are basically just condemning him to death by waking him up to the scheme he just so happens to reside within. If he breaths a word you have said to anyone else he runs the risk of immediate and brutal action.

Notice the Greek word used for "expelled from synagogue":


People naturally congregate together with others of like mind. Whether that be for science, religion, hobby or what have you. Because of this we have a natural tendency to conform to the group. This natural tendency can be artificially enhanced by the practice of excommunication. Therefore ANY group who practices this should rightly be considered a dangerous group, or a cult.

Revelation elaborates on what is touched on in John 16. While speaking to the Church of Brotherly Love Christ states:



Now this is being spoken in the future tense. The scene being described is a group of people who consider themselves to be "Jews." If you put an "el" and the end of the word Jew you have Jewel which has this definition:


So, jewels stand out as precious which means they are immediately picked up by anything of intelligence. A jewel denotes a CHOSEN item of which a rigorous process was required for it's creation.

The Greek word translated as "synagogue" from the verse in Revelation means a congregation. Therefore, a "Congregation of Jews" would mean a group of chosen people. Now, the verse also states that these ones are liars and are actually NOT Jews even though they claim to be (side note: which implies there ARE chosen people).

So, what is a "synagogue of Satan"? It's safe to say that one identifying mark is the practice of excommunication (John 16:2). This makes sense because in order to propagate a lie you need to control the population that's subject to it. The way you do this is through behavior, information, thought and emotional control. You create an environment of "us and them" and you use fear to make sure the lines are clearly drawn.

-Sab