xjwsforChrist

SO true, dear Char (mornin' and peace to you!)



Sadly, not true. If we all WERE, there would BE no prejudice... for God is NOT partial. There would be no crime, for no one would covet another's possessions. ALL would help their fellowman, even their enemies, as God makes it rain upon the righteous... AND the unrighteous. And... He gave His Son to save... even that One's enemies, those who pierced him.

God is love, dear one, and His Son is truth. Not all of man know, show, or exist IN love... OR truth. Those who belong to God, however, AS His sons... pursue, exist in, and manifest both: love... AND truth. Because THROUGH His Son, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... they are LED into both: love... and ALL truth.

So, nope, sorry, that we are all children of God... simply is not true. I realize your own paradigms might not let you grasp/receive THIS truth... but what you (currently) believe is NOT the TRUTH, luv.

Would that it were true, though. Because then, ALL of mankind would glorify God. Think of it! ALL of mankind existing WITHOUT any thing "against" his fellowman. WITHOUT "dominating" his fellowman. WITHOUT "bearing false witness against" his fellowman. WITHOUT... murdering... his fellowman.

We're not even close, though. As some have shared, atheism is on the rise. And THAT... is the TRUTH.

So, please, consider what you are "teaching," and whether it TRULY originated with God. Because if it DOESN'T... then it "originated"... with the wicked one. Given that THAT one "keeps transforming HIMSELF into an angel of (the) Light"... we shouldn't be surprised that such "feel good" thoughts arise in us. But you really should consider where THAT "inspired expression" IN you came from.

You don't even have to ask about this one, though (although I would still exhort you to do so). You only need to look at the "fruits" of many of mankind to KNOW... it CAN'T be true. Not if God IS love. Because LOVE... would NOT "produce" such "children."

I hope this helps... and I apologize to the OP for the brief deviation, but it really was necessary.

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Of course, that doesn't mean we shouldn't TREAT... ALL... AS IF they WERE God's children (peace to you, all!). Of course, we should. ALL of mankind should treat one another "as if" all are God's children. In doing so, we, the Body of His Son, PROVE that we ARE His children. Matthew 5:43-48

It stands to follow, then, that when we DON'T do so, we PROVE... we are NOT His children.

Again, peace to you, all!

Your

Yes, this is where the statement was made earlier, "We ALL have the POTENTIAL to be His children"....

which shouldnt change how we treat another, but not all will prove to be (want to).



Just an added second,
Love and good morning to you
Justmom

Well, let me add my third : )


Yes, of course, yes.


Peace,
tammy

It's ok, Shelby, I realised after I wrote that that you wouldn't agree that we are all God's children. We've got stuck on that before.

I'm not in any mood to argue.

Still, I am reserving my position on this as although we don't agree, I don't think we are so very far apart, either.

So, peace!

How can I, luv (mornin' and peace to you!), when it's not TRUE... and so, a lie... yet I claim to be walking in truth WITH the Truth? Wouldn't that mean that I would, for the sake of... what... "getting along"... deny HIM while aligning myself with the "father" OF the lie (including that particularly one)? How would you expect that from me? It's not about the sentiment, dear one, but the actual statement.



I'm not stuck, luv, not at all. I can move past the lie and on into the truth, even if it doesn't comport with what I WANT... or WISH to believe. Sometimes truth calls for that.



Yes, please, let's not. Because unless your position is that you wish me to lie to these dear folks here... which I won't do... I can't see what there is to argue ABOUT. Truth... is truth, dear one. Yes?



Smile. Noted, luv. To be fair, I totally understand what you're TRYING to say (i.e., we all have the potential to BE sons of God). And I TOTALLY agree with that and that to reach that end, all should treat ALL others AS IF all are children of God. But that is not the same as "we ARE all sons of God," sorry.

And it's not semantics, my dear sister in Christ. It simply is not TRUE... and I am not the one who first said it. Surely, you would agree that Christ HIMSELF would know, as would Peter, James, John, Jude, and others. So, if I'm wrong on this... apparently, they... including Christ... are, too. Yes? How can it be, though, dear Char... that CHRIST is wrong as to whether we are ALL children of God? Yet, what did HE to those who were trying to kill him? I will share that with you:

"I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”

Was he referring to Abraham (as their father)? Seems not:

“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

“If you were Abraham’s children,” said [Jesus], “then you would do what Abraham did. As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

Uh-oh, wait... Abraham's descendents... but NOT Abraham's children?? How can THAT be?

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Well, there you go! According to THEM... God IS their father! But... wait... did our dear Lord AGREE with them?

"[Jesus] said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say."

Oh, dear... "IF God was their Father"?? Apparently, Christ is saying that if He WAS... they would HEAR what he said to them. Why couldn't they? He explains:

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires."

Yikes. THEIR father... the DEVIL? How could that be? What were they DOING that SHOWED who THEIR father truly was??

My Lord goes on:

"He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!"

Wow. So, they wanted to kill him... because... they were murderers, like THEIR father! And like him, a murderer because he did not hold to the truth... because there is NO truth IN him... these were now doing the same thing: wanting to kill our dear Lord... SIMPLY because he had been telling them... wait for it... the TRUTH! Hmmmm... I think I see a pattern...

"Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?"

Yeah, why DIDN'T they believe HIM, the Son of GOD?? He tells them why, dear one:

"Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”


Now, I didn't make this exchange up, dear Char. Indeed, you can read it for yourself, at John 8:37-47.

So, now, maybe, if you can allow yourself to take ME out of the equation, that it is something "Shelby" is saying/has made up... and look at/listen to what CHRIST said (as recorded)... and still says (if you will listen), perhaps you will be able to grasp this truth, even if it's not what you WANT to hear.

But, no, no argument from ME, luv, as I don't believe there is one that can be made that we all ARE children of God. At least, not of the God who is also called "Father" by Christ. My comments are only so that perhaps any who are "listening" might get the TRUTH... versus what we (you or I) think/want as to this matter.

I truly hope this helps.



Absolutely and to you, as well, dear one!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Yes. I like this. Honest. True.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

I totally understand that you can't lie. But nor can I.

I am very resistant to big chunks of text from the Bible being quoted, no matter how sincerely, to make a point that they, in their original context, didn't address. That's a fundamentalist approach, used by the JW's and other fundamentalist sects or religions.

So, although I know that you think you have addressed the matter and demonstrated your point, to me you haven't.

I absolutely totally believe that we are all God's children. And you don't. I see your view as mistaken. Unfortunately, you see my sincerely-held view as a lie.

I can see how you come to that conclusion. In common with the JW's and no doubt influenced by them, your approach is one of reason, or at least, reason as you see it. You quote Biblical texts that seem to you to confirm your stance. The thing is, I don't think that texts quoted out of context have anything to do with such issues. So, we have an impasse.

As I said earlier, I see your view as mistaken,but I don't think, and won't say that you lie. You don't lie. A lie is a deliberate telling of something one knows to be untrue, told with an intent to deceive. You certainly do not do that. You sincerely intend to tell the truth and you think that you do.

On this matter, I believe you to be wrong, but mistaken, not, definitely not, telling a deliberate lie.

It saddens me that your approach is such that you don't do the same. I do not lie. I tell the truth, just as you do. I sincerely believe that we are all God's children. I don't say we are all his obedient children. But children, yes. I just find it such a pity that you feel the need to call a view that differs from your own understanding a lie. It's not a lie, Shelby. It's a different understanding. God knows the truth, and one day we will too. In the meantime, I continue to believe in God our Loving Heavenly Father, merciful and just, and I am so grateful to Him for all His grace and His loving mercy.

It was truly a sincere and honest interpretation of quotations that have been taken from different parts of the Bible out of context. That is where the honesty is, in the sincerity of the writer.

It doesn't make the conclusions drawn true, Loz. It does mean that the writer spoke truthfully as she saw it.

Just as I do, coming to a different conclusion and holding a different belief, and that I am in a minority in this forum does not make me a deliberate liar nor inherently wrong, either.

I am not saying you are all wrong and I am right. I am saying we hold different opinions, and that only God knows the truth of it.

What I don't do, is call anyone else a liar. Nor do I call their differing views lies. Employing words like true, truth and lie/s here is unhelpful, and not conducive to the very truth frequently asserted.

Hello Char,

This is not out of context. It is written all thorough out. It is not our words.
It is not JW anything


It is plain and clear and written.

And you still choose not to see and hear this,
WHY Char?


If this was read to you at Sunday mass would you believe it then?

It is IN what you put faith in. The bible....

It is even our Lords own words in John that Shelby mentions.



John 1:9
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
Jhn 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jhn 1:11
He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Jhn 1:12
Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jhn 1:13
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.







1Jo 3:9
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.
1Jo 3:10
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.
1Jo 3:11
For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another.
1Jo 3:12
Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.
1Jo 3:13
Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters,fn if the world hates you.


Just wanted to share more verses proving the same point made.

Love and peace to you Char,
Justmom

Yes, I know all those lines, justmom, and that is consistent with my Christian belief, just as it is with yours.

I don't get your point?

Why do you say "And you still choose not to see and hear this. Why, Char?"

Why do you think I don't see and believe this, justmom?

Oh, and by the way, these Biblical lines are very much part of Mass. Could it be that you have made assumptions out of ignorance, justmom? How many Masses have you attended to find out for yourself? So that your opinions can be based on fact, not fiction?

And, as a matter of interest, why and how has Mass come into this conversation? We were talking about different views following my very short statement " we are all children of God". How, suddenly, has an accusation that I refuse to believe in the things I have always believed come into this?

And what did I do to deserve it? I haven't accused anyone of anything, and I'm not doing so now. I am completely puzzled as to why Christian women see a need to attack another Christian woman?

Why, justmom, why?

You see, justmom, as a lifelong JW till you stopped, your experience may only have been with JW's and then outside all organised religion. You, like most here, assume that those within other churches don't know what you do.

For the most part, this is not the case. We do. But it is only members of fundamentalist groups who quote the Bible to attempt to prove a point in the way that you've just done (in ignorance, however sincerely meant, because you just don't know.)

For me, chunks and lines from the Bible taken out of context can't be used in that way, and to do so is wrong. That's my standpoint here. It doesn't mean I believe God's Word less than you do. It means I don't try to make it mean things it doesn't, or, rather, that our understanding of the Bible in some areas differs.

God knows what is right and what is not. But he also knows our hearts. I believe the hearts of you all are good, for I see no reason to judge otherwise. I don't call you liars, for you're not. But that doesn't mean that your belief is "the truth". You know who uses that term.

Now, it's getting late here, and although we get an extra hour tonight as we go back to Greenwich Mean Time, I am very tired and I'm off to bed. I'll look in tomorrow.

Char,

I apologize if you feel I am attacking you. I am not,
But I asked " why you still choose not to hear and see this"...

Because I sometimes am confused as to how much is shared by many, the support and verses in the bible that are shared to disprove something and that a teaching can still be held on to when either what is written or what our Lords own words say is there to show otherwise.

It's like when I held on to something the WTBS still taught no matter what scripture might have said differently.

This is why I asked if it was taught on Sunday through the form of worship you use....
Would it be something you would accept then?

Although I have not attended the Catholic Church, I see a very similar connection to what I held on to in the WTBS despite what anybody else tried to tell me WAS from Holy Spirit.
If you had shared something with me as a catholic, I would not have believed it. But if the GB had said the exact same thing at sometime in the future I would have THEN believed it.

It mattered where it was coming from.

That was my point Char,
I understand if you disagree
Love to you Justmom

Re the whole children of God... discussion... (peace to you, all!)... at some point one has to come to realization that... well...

Peace!

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar