xjwsforChrist

Zoe, the most that we can do when sharing IS to speak as we are given to share. To give for free what we have received. Others may accept or refrain what is shared... as they choose. This is love for Christ... that we obey Him and His teachings, including to give one another love - friend or enemy. And LOVE is the law, as I know that you understand!



This place was created for those who wanted to share in the Spirit, to build one another up IN THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST... safe(r) from attack than the place we were before. We are not going into other houses (forums) and disrupting or persecuting people there, nor even knocking on doors and bothering people ; ). We are simply trying to have fellowship with one another, in our shared faith in Christ, and to help build up His Body for those who are seeking Him in Spirit.


Peace and love to you,
tammy

Somewhere above someone calls Mary "dead"


Actually, no! She isn't dead at all! There is no record of her dying anywhere. No supposed grave that is visited or revered, nor any tradition of anything like it anywhere.


Char, that was me.


Not dead? I thought that I heard mentioned on this board way back that Catholics do NOT teach the resurrection has taken place. Still awaiting for Christs second coming I thought?
If Mary can prayer for us, then she has been resurrected!

Because the bible says the dead are conscious of nothing at all ( in this realm) Ecc 9

Please show me where in the bible we are told to pray to ANYONE other than the Father through CHRIST?

Love as always
Justmom

Oh, no problem of course, lol. I see that Shelby also listed the verses from Hebrews that speak of the destroyer of the firstborn.

Peace to you!!

tammy

In addition to the New Living Bible we now have the Shelby Bible

Really, dear Pup (peace, luv!)? How so? I only quoted what the Greek says... versus what the modern (mis)transliterations say. I marvel that some folks get all twitterpated about others "adding to" or "taking away" from "the scriptures"... but when someone quotes Bible verses as they were TRULY set down... which is visible to anyone who wants to take a moment and look them UP... they're rewriting the Bible.

You don't have a Bible version from me, dear one, because when I first entertained the idea my Lord told me absolutely NOT to do so. He said that ALL who have undertaken to create a Bible version only create something that condemns THEM. He that in EACH version... the translator(s) write judgment against themselves. Why? Because, although reading the words, so as to set them down in canonical form... they MISS the points! Points that would show THEM their own error... and why they need HIM (and not, say, Peter, Mary, some saint, Pope, FDS/GB, etc.).

But they are so concerned with writing down what THEY think was said/meant... based on their OWN understanding... rather than coming to HIM and letting HIM tell them (since he was either there, was the one who gave them what to write and/or directed them to write... or it was about HIM that the writing was speaking!).

In obedience to HIM, then, and his warning to ME... no, you will see no Bible translation from ME. Rather, you will (1) see me share the scripture/verse ACCURATELY... as it was meant originally, and (2) refer you to Christ for corroboration (and not to some religious organization's interpretations/catechism/talmud/publications).

But if accuracy makes you nervous (though I don't see why)... you might have to ask yourself why that it. Or ask Christ. Not sure the first will give you an accurate understanding of it... but the second surely will.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you, dear Debil Dawg!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar (or, perhaps, "Shel of the Sea"? Pun totally intended! LOLOLOL!)

WTBS has been saying "God's angel" (or some variant) since AT LEAST the 1950s, probably before, but I have no references prior to that. We should remember that they used the KJV and/or ASV prior to that, which BOTH have "the destroyer" at Ex 12:23. There is a strong possibility that this is an early understanding and that it simply never needed to be explained.

Regarding, 1 Corinthians 10:10 and Hebrews 11:28, Shelby, yes, I understood that they both referenced "the destroyer", which is why I started equating "the destroyer" with God himself. The irregular translation of Exodus 12:23 in the NWT, as Tammy pointed out to me, threw me off. There it says "the ruination" instead of "the destroyer". The NWT Reference Bible normally has footnotes to words like this, but in this case, nothing, nada, zip. So, I completely missed it.

Which begs the question: who is the destroyer? I'm confused. There's Abaddon / Apollyon. Is "the destroyer" and Destruction one and the same? And who is the "son of destruction"? 2 Thess 2:6 refers to him also as the "man of lawlessness" or "man of sin", depending on your translation. This was (is?) to be revealed. This "man" is one who lifts himself up over everyone else, sits in God's temple, showing himself to be a god. 2 Thess 2:9 seems to indicate it's not Satan, but I'm not clear on that.

The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works.

So, I don't know. I don't have an answer as to who the "son of destruction" is. Your previous list of questions seemed to be designed to lead me to a conclusion, but I'm missing this one. Not getting it.

Me thinks this thread needs to be split into two topics. LOL!

LOl... I think we just have a lot of topics ongoing at the moment, spilling into each other. I've had to go back and read to make sure i'm commenting on the right one this morning already, and then switch TO the right thread ; )


Peace,
tammy

If you read further, justmom, you will find that Mary was assumed into heaven.

Yes, that is what Ecclesiastes said. That was Rutherford's favourite, wasn't it? I heard the recording of him expounding upon that passage. I can still hear his voice ....no, don't get excited, figure of speech...I retain the memory of the sound of his voice.

However, we do not live in the time of Ecclesiastes. We have heard Jesus. We have the New Testament, and Jesus' words, so, although poor old Ruthetford couldn't manage to differentiate between Old and New Testament understanding, we, fortunately can. We have Jesus to guide us, and he made it clear that that is no longer the case.

John 11:25: I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live" and John 3:16: For God so loved the world that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

And there are many others. I think Jesus trumps Ecclesiastes, don't you?

Now, if someone who believes in Jesus has everlasting life, how much more will it be granted to Mary, Mother of Jesus Christ and thus Mother of God.

From the very earliest years after Jesus' death she became known, in the Greek, as Mary Theotokos, which means Mary, God-bearer.

Yes, dear LQ (mornin' and peace to you!).



I am not sure how 2 Thessalonians 2:9 indicates that this "son" is anyone other THAN the Adversary, dear one... unless perhaps the Bible translation you're using obscures it. Here, from the NIV:

"The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness."

While this is not a completely accurate transliteration, what Paul is saying is that that one with come in accordance with how he (Satan) WORKS: transforming himself into an angel of LIGHT. Hence, the displays of power through signs and wonders. But these... serve the LIE. Satan is the "father" of the lie... and these serve HIS interests. However, those signs and wonders are how he DECEIVES (remember, "Devil" means "deceiver"... and he deceived Eve!). Those who REFUSE TO LOVE THE TRUTH... are deceived... and so... THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE HIM! And JAH allows that to occur... just as He (1) allowed Pharaoh, who DID know "JaHVeH" to become obstinate, and (2) allowed ISRAEL to have their senses DULLED... into the full number of the nations have come in.

But that will not always be the case! At SOME point... the Adversary is going to be REVEALED... just as the SON is revealed! And folks will be astonished at both! Because they've EXCHANGED the Truth (Christ)... FOR THE LIE (Satan). They don't KNOW this... because they are BLIND. And so, not only cannot they not see Christ... but they can't see Satan. As a result, most think Satan the "ugly" one and Christ the "beautiful" one... in literal appearance... as well as that certain works they attribute to God/Christ are actually those of the Adversary... and those they believe are of the Adversary are actually of JAH/Christ.

BOTH of these are "hidden" from mankind, Christ AND the Adversary... because they are SPIRITS. When one is joined to and walk with CHRIST leading them, however, HE gives them sight. And so, while we cannot yet see the Adversary CLEARLY... as we may not be able to see Christ clearly... the say is coming when we will. When BOTH are revealed... the Son of God (Life) AND the son of Destruction (Death).

The Son of God... is Christ, the Chief Agent of God and Life. The son of Destruction is Beli'Jah'El (without Jah as his God)... the one called "Satan" (slanderer) and "Devil" (deceiver).

I hope this helps, dear LQ.

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

OH Tammy, what I said did not mean we shouldn't have a place to talk about our own beliefs, to share them and encourage each other. I was just thinking that its not necessary for people to get angry, insulted or upset if someone believes differently or doesn't agree with their beliefs. We need to just show love and tolerance for each other.

Oh, I didn't meant o direct anything like that toward you, Zoe. I understood what you were saying and I totally hear you! Sorry about that.


Peace,
tammy

*tosses mayo and celery bits in you*

In your post you mentioned that the verse you put forth is different from the other Bibles because you rendered it accurately as the LORD told you hence it is your version. Thus it is the Shelby translation . All Bibles are in effect different translations of the original text. The Living Bible was a person's attempt to paraphrase the Bible in an attempt to make it easier for some people to read.

The mention of false scribes may have meant a deliberate attempt to falsify or it may have been an earnest attempt to translate but they were limited in their knowledge and grasp of language. As a few members on this forum often being up the false scribes argument when they don't agree with the verses in the Bible I don't use scripture to bolster my argument nor do I place great weight when they use scripture to bolster theirs because it all seems to be subjective.

In High School one practice we did was to choose a book or chapter of the Bible and write down in our own words what we thought the passages meant. There is no twitterpation or nervousness from me on what you did. Your version does subtly change the meaning when compared to the other versions but that is okay as that is what YOU got out of the reading as TOLD to YOU by the LORD One of the Commandments is "I am The Lord thy God, you shall have no other Gods before Me". That can be interpreted to say that the LORD is the one true God or it can be interpreted to say that God acknowledges that there are other gods but he wanted his followers to place Him over the other gods. Which is more accurate? It depends on who is reading or hearing the message.

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Shelby, you say you will she the scripture/verse ACCURATELY, and the block capitals seem to imply that you are suggesting that other translations are not accurate.

Is that what you meant?

The issue of the false scribes is a tricky because it CAN lead us to the "either/or" view, in short, if we can't trust ALL, we can't trust ANY.

I don't think that is the case.

Comments on the "lying pens" ( Jeremiah) and the "false scribes" ( Matthew) are there for a reason and I don't think it was to cast doubt or to invalidate the scriptures ( Jesus used and quotes from them regularly). There is also the comment that certain "bad" statutes/laws were given on purpose to "punish/mislead" the people because of their lack of faith ( Ezekiel).

I think that what we must NOT TRY to do is determine what is false and what is right based on OUR wanting certain parts to be right and others wrong to conform to OUR view of what we THINK is right.
Of course we all do that, I know that I do.

What I mean is that we can't say, "here, see my view is right because of this(these) passages" and when someone points out a "contrary passage" we simply say: The scribes got that part wrong.

We must NOT do that.
Why?
Because, if bible verses are all that we are going on, then there is no proof that Ours is right then Theirs is false simply because we say so.

So what can we do?

One must make our argument in the best possible way and RECONCILE what MAY appear to be contradiction.

I have found that, usually, the contradiction is simply "misinterpretation".

Yes, many contradictions are misinterpretations (or lack of knowledge of all that IS written)... though many misinterpretations are based on a) someone wanting a passage to mean a certain thing; and b) well... an error of the scribes, lol. Even if that error is as simple as a word being different. (such as I create the light and the darkness, instead of I separate the light from the darkness)


Certainly we should not interpret anything according to our own wishes. That makes no sense, right? A person can wish all he wants... that doesn't make something TRUE. We should ask Christ, and have Him teach us... in spirit... never minding anything else, including what is written. What He teaches, though, IS backed in what is written, to help people to SEE that His teaching is true.

I have found that He has taught me something, and sometimes I doubt... and look it up, and there is was all along, but I never had the eyes to see it before I heard it from Him. (opening up the scriptures)


Mostly though, I am learning just to listen to Him, whatever He tells me.

If someone shares something, then I will listen to Him, test against love and against what is written.



Peace to you,
tammy