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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:25 pm 
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TEC SAID

Kassad, I hear you. It was like constant warning against partaking AND damage control to teach others that even if someone does partake, that this does not mean that they should.


I think that makes it even more important to give witness to Christ, among those who are being so inundated with talks that they should NOT partake of Him. Especially since they do insinuate that the '144000' should pretty much be full. No one else partook that I saw, other than me.


Some of the people there remembered me. My friend/study conductor was there as well. She doesn't live here, she just came in for something about her son... and so happened to be here this year. She sat with me. I believe I upset her, but she knew that I was not doing it because I was some stranger who wandered in off the street who didn't know the teachings.


I am so happy to hear that from you Jochy. I am so glad that you felt the peace of the Spirit.


So many of you taking a stand and giving witness to Him, and in front of so many that you know will disapprove!

I am humbled by all of you.

Much peace and love to you all,

tammy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:25 pm 
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JOCHY SAID

Gracias my dear Tammy and Blessings to you too.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:25 pm 
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LOZ SAID


Well done Kassad for going, I agree about the feeling of oppression from the GB in there. I felt such pity for those who are being denied the joy of Holy Spirit, since it felt so conspicuously absent.

Jochy I am so happy to hear about you and your family partaking, and what a fine 'witness' for all that were there to see your union with Christ.

Tammy, I'm glad attending went ok for you, and I hope it makes your friend think carefully.

Loz x
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:25 pm 
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PSACRAMENTO SAID

I took my mom and dad to the memorial last night.
Because of my Dad's condition he is in a wheelchair now and needs me to carry him in and out of the car and up stairs and such.
He was received so warmly and lovingly, it was very touching.
I did not partake of course, no one did.
I closed my mind to some of the doctrines that were mentioned that I know to be wrong and at the end, everyone came by and greeted my parents and myself.
It was a very nice time, with very nice people.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:26 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Out town and away from computer so will post properly when back home but just want to say good morning and peace to you ALL and that I rejoice with you ALL regardless of your choices last evening! For those who may not understand, no returning to vomit for WE never vomited out CHRIST but only their lies about him and who belong to him and how. So more like running back into a burning building, which CAN be foolish, yes, but worth it to save a life that might be trapped inside, yes?

Some will go back in a dangerously burning building to save a dog/cat, as well as give it CPR afterward to save it. How, then, can it be against the law of LOVE to go back to save a human life? Greeting our brothers ONLY is not the way of Christ, dear ones. Matthew 5:44-48

More when I get home but nothing major as to my own experience. Quite uneventful this year, praise JAH!

Dear, dear Jochy... peace to you and yours and what a WONDERFUL night for you and yours, dear one! We all rejoice with you!

Peace to you ALL and may JAH bless you AND your entire households to time indefinite!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:26 pm 
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BURNS SAID

My wife went with the children. She did not tell me she was going to take them there.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:26 pm 
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TEC SAID

Sorry for that Burns. Is your wife a witness, then? Or just has family that are, perhaps?

Peace,
tammy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:26 pm 
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BURNS SAID


The latter. I am very unhappy about this. Last night was not a good night after I found out. She told me she was going to see her parents. I didn't put 2+2 together. Stupid me.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:26 pm 
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CHARIKLO SAID

Sometimes, Burn, it seems that the deceit and subterfuge of Witnesses know no bounds.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:27 pm 
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CHAPPY SAID

The pressure from this group, the family guilt, the unyieldingness of them, pushes otherwise trustworthy people into a corner. Even after leaving the org, the pressure remains.

I'm sorry, BTS. That hit you hard.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:27 pm 
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ZOE SAID


I wanted to share this with you about the observation of the Memorial this year. Keith Walker (who was never a JW) went again to the Memorial last night as he does nearly every year to observe the event. Here is his report on how it went and some of the changes he noticed.

Here is his blog:
http://blog.evidenceministries.org/jeho ... #more-4059

Jehovah’s Witness Memorial 3/26/13
March 27, 2013 5:33 pm / 5 Comments / Keith

Praying for the bread at the 2013 Memorial service of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
For the past 11 or so years I have attended the annual “Lord’s Evening Meal” conducted by Jehovah’s Witnesses. The Witnesses celebrate what most Christians refer to as communion only once a year. Before I describe the events of the evening, I’ll give a short summary of what usually happens at this ceremony.

Since this is the only religious holiday Jehovah’s Witnesses celebrate, attendance at Kingdom Halls for this service is much like Christmas and Easter is for Christians. If you are associated with the Witnesses in any way, and you could only make one meeting all year, this would be the meeting. Parking lots are filled and everyone is wearing their Sunday best. The service starts just after sunset.

A very respected man (an elder or someone of greater authority), will stand up in front of the audience and give a presentation that lasts approximately 45 minutes. The speaker will jump from verse to verse in the Bible attempting to prove that the only ones who are allowed to partake of the bread and wine are those of the anointed class, numbered at 144,000 members. Since there are very few Jehovah’s Witnesses who claim to be of the anointed (Witnesses are STRONGLY counseled against such claims), yet there are more than 16 million people in attendance at this event world-wide, the average Kingdom Hall does not have anyone who partakes of the emblems.

So basically, someone will get up and speak about how important it is that Jehovah’s Witnesses attend while emphasizing that practically no one will participate. They will then pass the emblems around, watch everyone reject them, then go home. Here is what happened last night.
The meeting I attended last night was at a local hotel. Because this is such a well attended meeting, sometimes a congregation will meet at a larger venue as their Kingdom Halls are usually only able to seat roughly 300 people at a maximum. I got there a little early because seating fills up fast. While I was updating my facebook status on my iPad, (Gotta love technology when it works!), a man, H.R. came up to me and asked if I was alone. Since most congregations are not that large, it is very easy to pick out unfamiliar faces. H.R. asked if I have ever been to a meeting like this and I told him that I have. He asked if I knew that no one partakes of the emblems. I acknowledged this fact. He then asked, “Do you understand why?” I smiled and replied, “I do have some questions about that.” We exchanged phone numbers and he said that we could meet and talk about it later. He also said that he would check with me after the meeting and see if he could answer any of my questions.

Not three seconds after H.R. walked away, a lady sitting behind me said, “I noticed you have an iPad.” She informed me that the official web site of Jehovah’s Witnesses has a number of things that are easily downloaded to an iPad. We talked about that for a bit and then she started talking about some of their theology. She asked me a question; “Do you know what the world would look like if no one ever sinned?” I answered, “Well, I supposed we’d all be running around naked and living in a big Garden.”

“That’s right and one day Jehovah is going to return the earth to its original purpose.”

“You mean we’re all going to be running around naked in a big Garden?”

The thought hit both of us at the same time. Her facial expression changed as she thought about that, but continued to verbally affirm my statement. I kept thinking about all of the covers of Watchtower magazines I have seen over the years of happy families in a paradise earth. I didn’t say it, but all of those covers are wrong. If God is going to return the earth to its original purpose, then why are all of those people clothed? I could see from her face that she had never thought of that idea and was not exactly comfortable with it. I’m sure she could see from the look on my face that I wasn’t comfortable with it either.

The program started at 7:30 and I can’t help but say it, but the speaker was probably the worst one I have heard yet. It seems like I say that every year though. The Watchtower does not encourage individuality in any way whatsoever so when the men speak, there is no personality, no humor, no life and definitely no Spirit in their presentation. No good spirit anyway. Rather than give a detailed description of the sermon, I will address a few things that jumped out at me because I noticed they were different from previous years.

One thing that didn’t change though was the continuous use of the word “appreciate.” My wife Becky noticed it a number of years ago so now every time I attend a witness function, I always keep track of how many times the word is mentioned. In less than 45 minutes I heard a form of the word “appreciation” no less than 15 times. This is equivalent to the Book of Mormon using the phrase, “And it came to pass.” This has led me to the thought of one day showing up at the memorial with an idea for a game.

Every cult has terminology they use over and over so I think one day when I am old, wrinkly and can get away with it, I will make a few Bingo cards which contain a number of Jehovah’s Witness buzz words. I will bring a bunch of my old, wrinkly, decrepit friends and we will play Kingdom Hall Bingo. The first person to get a straight line of five words will immediately stand up and announce, “ARMAGEDDON!” If your card happens to include the word “appreciate,” you are sure to win.

Here are a few things that jumped out at me during the meeting. I would like to hear from others who attended the meeting to see if this is a uniform change or if it was just the personal bent of our speaker, but I never heard one mention of the Watchtower Society. No one ever even said the word “Organization.” That is very surprising. I also heard the phrase “personal relation with God” a few times. It seems that the Watchtower is listening to it critics and is trying to place more focus on Christ and less on the organization… at least publicly.

Another thing that was surprising was that in years past, there has always been a HUGE emphasis on the Witness idea that Judas was not present when Jesus instituted the New Covenant. The Watchtower teaches that Jesus dismissed Judas before He passed out the bread and wine. This is important within Watchtower theology because the only ones who are allowed to partake of the emblems are those who are part of the New Covenant. Since Judas was the betrayer, he couldn’t have been in the New Covenant. The surprising part is that NONE of this was mentioned.

I don’t know if there was a change in the outline or not, but the Watchtower outline that I have includes Luke 22:19-20. It is always read, and was again this year, but perhaps the reason the speaker did not include this information about Judas is because Luke 22:21 clearly states that, “The hand of my betrayer is with me at the table.” At every memorial I have ever been too, verse 19 and 20 are always read from Luke chapter 22, but they never read the very next verse. Whenever I get a chance to talk to a Jehovah’s Witness after the event, I have always asked about this contradiction. Why does the Watchtower teach that Judas was not present when Jesus plainly says he was? I don’t know if our speaker purposefully avoided this issue or not, but if it was avoided, it is a move which will keep many Witnesses from the embarrassment of having to reconcile their beliefs with the Bible.

Another small difference was that this year our speaker gave a rough estimate of how many people attended the memorial last year instead of an exact number. He said it was 16,000,000. In past years they always gave an exact number and more importantly also reported how many people partook of the emblems. Why is that important? This leads to a more important difference I noticed.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught that there are two classes of people with two different hopes. One group is numberless and is called “The Great Crowd.” They have the hope of living forever upon a paradise earth. They will never be with Jesus and will be ruled from heaven by a smaller group called “The Anointed.” This group is numbered at 144,000 members and expects to reign with Christ in the heavens. They are also the only ones who are allowed to partake of the emblems at the memorial. In the past, the Watchtower has taught that this group has been completed since 1935 so it was expected that the number would gradually decrease. It was expected that Armageddon would occur before the last of this group dies.

In 2007 there was a doctrinal change which allowed for the possibility of more people to claim to be of the anointed remnant. Since this change occurred, the number of those who partake of the emblems and claim to be of those with a heavenly hope has increased every year. In 2006 there were 8,758 partakers. According to this interesting article here,

there were 12,604 who partook in 2012. That is an increase of almost 44% since the doctrinal change. When you take into consideration that world-wide Jehovah’s Witnesses only increase by about 2% per year, this is HUGE increase in partakers.

Is it possible that the number of those who partook last year was purposefully withheld to keep people from asking why the number of those partaking keeps increasing? Why is it that a group of people which is expected to die off is increasing in number? I’m looking for more doctrinal changes in the future to help explain this. In fact, there may be one in the works right now.

The last difference that I noticed from last night which I would like to discuss is a curious mention of 1st Corinthians 11:26. It is quoted every year, but not in the same way it was quoted last night. The speaker said something to the effect that after those of the heavenly hope are gone, the memorial will no longer need to be observed. He then quoted 1 Corinthians. 11:26 in support of that statement.

It reads in the New World Translation (NWT), “For as often as YOU eat this loaf and drink this cup, YOU keep proclaiming the death of the Lord, until he arrives” (I don’t know why the NWT places the word “You” in all caps, but it does).

Does anyone notice the problem here? The speaker said there will be no reason to observe the Memorial once all of the anointed have left, but in past years they have taught that there will be some anointed on earth when the tribulation begins. Is this a hint to an upcoming doctrinal change or was this just the inadvertent statement of one Jehovah’s Witness elder? Either way it is problematic to state that there will be no reason to observe the Memorial because a certain group of people has died off and then quote 1st Corinthians 11:26 when that verse specifically states that we are to continue to do it until Jesus arrives, not until the anointed remnant leaves. There is a big difference between the two ideas. Again, I would like to hear from some of you who attended the meeting. I am interested to hear if the things I noticed are a universal change or just some interesting anomaly.

I’d like to end by telling you two interesting little bits that had nothing to do with possible doctrinal changes as it was something I observed from two visitors. During the meeting the Witness who sat next to me and I were asked to give up our seats for some “sisters.” It was standing room only so I found a place on a side wall to lean against. I ended up standing next to a man who was obviously not a Jehovah’s Witness. When the bread was passed to me, I passed it to him and he stood there holding the plate for an unusually long time. He just stood there looking at the bread wondering if he should take it.

Remember the context of what has just happened. We stood there for roughly a half hour listening to a man who told us it was important that we observed this event, but not directly participate. No one else in the room had taken a piece of unleavened bread because they believe that they are not part of the New Covenant. (I didn’t take it because I didn’t want to cause a scene.) He just stood there looking at the bread.

An attendant noticed this and went over to retrieve the plate and pass it to the next person who was standing right next to him. There was a slight tug-of-war between the attendant and the man standing next to me. Finally the man relented and gave the attendant the plate, but then tried to take a piece of bread from the plate. It was quickly whisked away and given to the man standing right next to him. The man stood there dejected and confused.

I leaned over as whispered, “You’re not a JW are you?” He asked, “How’d you know? I am a Baptist and I believe that Jesus is my Savior.” I told him I would explain later. I handed him a note with my name and phone number on it and told him that Jesus was my Savior too.

The other interesting thing was that as the wine was passed, I noticed another visitor who was visibly upset. I had a good vantage point because I was standing up against the wall. As the wine glass was passed to her row, she told the attendant, “Don’t pass it to me or I will drink it.” Her arms were folded and she had a look of disgust on her face. She wasn’t loud or rude, but she spoke loud enough that I could hear her from four rows away.

I share these last two stories because I want people to understand just how sad this event is. I go every year as a reminder of how lost Jehovah’s Witnesses really are. It is especially hard for me to think about and watch the children. I pray for the people there and hope that they will one day have their eyes open to who Jesus really is and what He has done for us in the New Covenant. The title of the presentation was, “Appreciate What Christ Has Done For You.” I pray that someday some of them really will.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:28 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

I am an exJW... but my experience has been and was VERY similar to this gentleman's, dear Zoe (peace to you!). Even down to the changes I noticed in doctrine and the outline. The only worthy difference is that the speaker were I attended said 19,000,000 attended last year, not 16,000,000.

The part where the man held the plate and then had it whisked away and the woman saying don't pass it to her or she WOULD partake resounded with me. Of course, they both were not JWs (well, the man - not sure about the woman?)... but what OF currents JWs who "feel" the same "pull"? If only NON-JWs make an issue... well, of COURSE "those folks don't know any better!"

I won't go into my reasons for going again - you've all heard enough of that. My experience this year was relatively uneventful. I attended in my home town with my daughter and a dear one who came out of the WTBTS when I did. We all partook. Two things where notable to me:

1. The speaker - got on my NERVES. His was not the usual bland talk. No, this speaker was "charismatic." He peppered his talk with all manner of references to the "new system" (paradise) and its features, including a short appeal to children... repeatedly saying "Can you see yourself there?" He was trying to be "persuasive"... and I kept thinking two things: (1) if it's the TRUTH, why do you NEED to persuade - just say it and let those with ears (for truth) HEAR (of course, it's not so he had to try and be persuasive)... and (2) the difference between how my Lord spoke to HIS audiences... and how the Adversary spoke to his. People tend to think of my Lord as being "nice" and "sweet" when he spoke/speaks. Not so. He was/is always kind and loving... but he is forthright. The Adversary, on the other hand, is the one who always resorts to persuasiveness ("It is really so?"... "If you ARE the Son of God"... "Be kind to yourself...", etc.).

2. We were not known in this congregation. We missed our home congregation, unfortunately because the attendants never seem to know which congregation is meeting (eight meet at this double KH and four for the Memorial... and ours met elsewhere). Or perhaps fortunately, because it was my daughter's first time partaking among them... and so I was a bit relieved for her (and me, 'cause if anyone had said ANYTHING untoward to her... my Lord KNOWS they might have had to call someone to "escort" me out! LOLOLOL!). But what was remarkable is that, again, we were not known... by ANYONE... and yet, not a single person greeted us! NO ONE came up to ask who we were... or where we were from... except one "brother." JUST before the song began he came up and introduced himself and asked our names.

Now, that may not seem like anything newsworthy. Except, no one ELSE came up at ALL, at ANY time... except him, again. Just after we each took the bread (which was thin, pitabread-ish pieces that had to be broken but relatively easy to do)... he came and stood behind us. And as SOON as the program ended... he rushed up to "introduce" himself again. THIS time, he wanted to know where we were from, and so he asked "leading" questions ("You attend a congregation here?"). We were able to skirt his questions and leave. We all noted, however, that it was very "strange" that "strangers" were not greeted. Because it wasn't just us. Some other non-JW folks came (a man with long red dredlocks, a lady wearing slacks)... and no one greeted them, either.

And so, rather than being fortified (LOLOLOLOL!)... I left with a negative vibe, as usual. THIS time, though, it wasn't solely about the vibe toward me, which is usually the case. THIS time... I couldn't get the following words from my Lord out of my head... and heart... which in THEIR Bible is recorded as:

YOU​ heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to ​YOU: Continue to love ​YOUR​ enemies and to pray for those persecuting ​YOU; that ​YOU​ may prove yourselves sons of ​YOUR​ Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if ​YOU​ love those loving ​YOU, what reward do ​YOU​ have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if ​YOU​ greet ​YOUR​ brothers only, what extraordinary thing are ​YOU​ doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? YOU​ must accordingly be perfect, as ​YOUR​ heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:43-48

Other than those two things... nothing "extraordinary" to report. Not a very "exciting"... or stimulating... observance, anyway, no nothing new, really, except the potential changes in doctrine to come. Talk about prepping for brainwashing... (shaking head).

So, that was my experience, dear ones!

Looking forward to next year!!!!!

Peace to you all!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:28 pm 
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ZOE SAID

It's interesting to hear the observations from the brave folks who attended but are no longer part of the WT.

I hear from most of you that it is a depressing meaningless celebration and the spirit of Love and God does not show itself there still.
I don't know if you could pay me to attend another one of those Memorials, thank you to those of you who did it for us so we can live vicariously through you.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:28 pm 
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TEC SAID

Quote:
Quote:
He peppered his talk with all manner of references to the "new system" (paradise) and its features, including a short appeal to children... repeatedly saying "Can you see yourself there?"


Maybe that was part of the talk, because mine did the same thing. I looked around at the children when he said it (lots around me), but they didn't seem to be paying much attention. Too young perhaps.

Peace,
tammy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:28 pm 
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AGUEST SAID

Quote:
Quote:
I hear from most of you that it is a depressing meaningless celebration


Mmmmmmm... I wouldn't say depressing, dear Zoe (peace to you, luv!), at least not for me. And certainly NOT meaningless (for ME) - to the contrary, the event has GREAT meaning for ME. Just not the RIGHT meaning for THEM.

Quote:
Quote:
and the spirit of Love and God does not show itself there still.


Yes, but the same can be said of Jerusalem and Capernaum, etc., in general, during my Lord's day in the flesh, yes? Truly, NO love lost on HIM in either except by perhaps a few. Sometimes, only one or two. Yet... he went to both and repeatedly. Until their 'house' became 'abandoned' to them. Until that time, he still went among those there... to bear witness to the TRUTH (about the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies) to them. Why? Because the Father, and thus he... loved them ("God so loved the WORLD...").

So, I think that the experience is influenced greatly, yes, by one's motive and intent for BEING there... as well as what one EXPECTS to get out of it: if from them, the expectation should be pretty much nothing; however, if from Christ, well, several here gave testimony to the "fire" they felt, so....

I am not sure one can beat the feeling of (1) having given public witness to their love of and union with Christ; (2) especially when done among those who wish to deny the privilege of it; and (3) having done "just so". Whatever "negativity" may be present, it's far, far outweighed, IMHO, with the POSITIVE that comes from having actually PARTICIPATED in the event, versus merely observing/spectating. Not the same thing... or feeling... at ALL.

Again, peace to you, dear, dear Zoe!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellama


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