xjwsforChrist

Think of the story of the serpent in the garden of eden, with regard to Eve and Adam. Would you say that the serpent, who is the adversary, was proactive, reactive or non-active?

Peace,
tammy

That's in a story and in the past I speak of now

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Well, its the same.

He is proactive... as in tempting and trying to deceive. People underestimate the deception though... forgetting that he keeps transforming himself into an 'angel of light'.

But he has no power other than what we give him over us, because WE can oppose HIM.


But it might be harder to oppose a lie if one does not first know the truth. Sometimes lies are obvious... and sometimes they contain SOME truth, so that they do not sound so much like lies (which is the deception part).


Peace,
tammy

What do you think? I can think of a few verses that describes his activities.

2 Cor 11:15: And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

1 Pet 5:8: Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

1 John 5:19: We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Sounds proactive to me!

Peace,
tammy

What does Satan stand to gain by all this deception and trickery though?
And I wonder how many acts by Satan are really from Satan and how many are just attributed to Satan but are in no way enacted or endorsed by Satan?

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Dear Char...


Just a few comments and references to a couple of my statements. Let me know if any of these are not true.

Which reference to praying to " Dead" Mary and determining a Saint. Will look for others.

Justmom


In communion with the holy Mother of God

2673 In prayer the Holy Spirit unites us to the person of the only Son, in his glorified humanity, through which and in which our filial prayer unites us in the Church with the Mother of Jesus.27

2674 Mary gave her consent in faith at the Annunciation and maintained it without hesitation at the foot of the Cross. Ever since, her motherhood has extended to the brothers and sisters of her Son "who still journey on earth surrounded by dangers and difficulties."28 Jesus, the only mediator, is the way of our prayer; Mary, his mother and ours, is wholly transparent to him: she "shows the way" (hodigitria), and is herself "the Sign" of the way, according to the traditional iconography of East and West.

2675 Beginning with Mary's unique cooperation with the working of the Holy Spirit, the Churches developed their prayer to the holy Mother of God, centering it on the person of Christ manifested in his mysteries. In countless hymns and antiphons expressing this prayer, two movements usually alternate with one another: the first "magnifies" the Lord for the "great things" he did for his lowly servant and through her for all human beings29 the second entrusts the supplications and praises of the children of God to the Mother of Jesus, because she now knows the humanity which, in her, the Son of God espoused.

2676 This twofold movement of prayer to Mary has found a privileged expression in the Ave Maria:

Hail Mary [or Rejoice, Mary]: the greeting of the angel Gabriel opens this prayer. It is God himself who, through his angel as intermediary, greets Mary. Our prayer dares to take up this greeting to Mary with the regard God had for the lowliness of his humble servant and to exult in the joy he finds in her.30

Full of grace, the Lord is with thee: These two phrases of the angel's greeting shed light on one another. Mary is full of grace because the Lord is with her. The grace with which she is filled is the presence of him who is the source of all grace. "Rejoice . . . O Daughter of Jerusalem . . . the Lord your God is in your midst."31 Mary, in whom the Lord himself has just made his dwelling, is the daughter of Zion in person, the ark of the covenant, the place where the glory of the Lord dwells. She is "the dwelling of God . . . with men."32 Full of grace, Mary is wholly given over to him who has come to dwell in her and whom she is about to give to the world.

Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. After the angel's greeting, we make Elizabeth's greeting our own. "Filled with the Holy Spirit," Elizabeth is the first in the long succession of generations who have called Mary "blessed."33 "Blessed is she who believed. . . . "34 Mary is "blessed among women" because she believed in the fulfillment of the Lord's word. Abraham. because of his faith, became a blessing for all the nations of the earth.35 Mary, because of her faith, became the mother of believers, through whom all nations of the earth receive him who is God's own blessing: Jesus, the "fruit of thy womb."

2677 Holy Mary, Mother of God: With Elizabeth we marvel, "And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"36 Because she gives us Jesus, her son, Mary is Mother of God and our mother; we can entrust all our cares and petitions to her: she prays for us as she prayed for herself: "Let it be to me according to your word."37 By entrusting ourselves to her prayer, we abandon ourselves to the will of God together with her: "Thy will be done."

Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death: By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the "Mother of Mercy," the All-Holy One. We give ourselves over to her now, in the Today of our lives. And our trust broadens further, already at the present moment, to surrender "the hour of our death" wholly to her care. May she be there as she was at her son's death on the cross. May she welcome us as our mother at the hour of our passing38 to lead us to her son, Jesus, in paradise.

2678 Medieval piety in the West developed the prayer of the rosary as a popular substitute for the Liturgy of the Hours. In the East, the litany called the Akathistos and the Paraclesis remained closer to the choral office in the Byzantine churches, while the Armenian, Coptic, and Syriac traditions preferred popular hymns and songs to the Mother of God. But in the Ave Maria, the theotokia, the hymns of St. Ephrem or St. Gregory of Narek, the tradition of prayer is basically the same.

2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus' mother into our homes,39 for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope.40




The Steps of Canonization ( determining who becomes a saint)


Here are the steps that must be followed in the process of canonization:
A local bishop investigates the candidate's life and writings for evidence of heroic virtue. The information uncovered by the bishop is sent to the Vatican.
A panel of theologians and the cardinals of the Congregation for Cause of Saints evaluate the candidate's life.
If the panel approves, the pope proclaims that the candidate is venerable, which means that the person is a role model of Catholic virtues.
The next step toward sainthood is beatification, which allows a person to be honored by a particular group or region. In order to beatify a candidate, it must be shown that the person is responsible for a posthumous miracle. Martyrs -- those who died for their religious cause -- can be beatified without evidence of a miracle. On Oct. 20, 2003, Mother Teresa was beatified. She is now known as Blessed Mother Teresa of Kolkata.
In order for the candidate to be considered a saint, there must be proof of a second posthumous miracle. If there is, the person is canonized.
These alleged miracles must be submitted to the Vatican for verification. Sister Teresia Benedicta of the Cross was canonized in 1997 after the Vatican verified that a young girl who ate seven times the lethal dose of Tylenol was suddenly cured. The girl's family was said to have prayed to the spirit of Sister Teresia for help.
In Mother Teresa's case, her supporters are arguing that she has performed at least two posthumous miracles. In one case, a French woman in the United States broke several ribs in a car accident -- reportedly, her wounds were healed because she was wearing a Mother Teresa medallion. Another possible miracle occurred when Mother Teresa appeared in the dreams of a Palestinian girl, telling the girl that her cancer was cured.

The Steps of Canonization
Here are the steps that must be followed in the process of canonization:
A local bishop investigates the candidate's life and writings for evidence of heroic virtue. The information uncovered by the bishop is sent to the Vatican.
A panel of theologians and the cardinals of the Congregation for Cause of Saints evaluate the candidate's life.
If the panel approves, the pope proclaims that the candidate is venerable, which means that the person is a role model of Catholic virtues.
The next step toward sainthood is beatification, which allows a person to be honored by a particular group or region. In order to beatify a candidate, it must be shown that the person is responsible for a posthumous miracle. Martyrs -- those who died for their religious cause -- can be beatified without evidence of a miracle. On Oct. 20, 2003, Mother Teresa was beatified. She is now known as Blessed Mother Teresa of Kolkata.
In order for the candidate to be considered a saint, there must be proof of a second posthumous miracle. If there is, the person is canonized.
These alleged miracles must be submitted to the Vatican for verification. Sister Teresia Benedicta of the Cross was canonized in 1997 after the Vatican verified that a young girl who ate seven times the lethal dose of Tylenol was suddenly cured. The girl's family was said to have prayed to the spirit of Sister Teresia for help.
In Mother Teresa's case, her supporters are arguing that she has performed at least two posthumous miracles. In one case, a French woman in the United States broke several ribs in a car accident -- reportedly, her wounds were healed because she was wearing a Mother Teresa medallion. Another possible miracle occurred when Mother Teresa appeared in the dreams of a Palestinian girl, telling the girl that her cancer was cured.

I suppose saints and such have a parallel to the concept of bodhisattvas

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Greetings, dear LQ and peace to you!

I did know that someone might refer to those verses (was hoping for it, actually - smile!). Rather than simply tell you, let me ask you these few questions:

1. Did Judas repent?

2. Did the Apostles know who it was that betrayed Christ?

3. If they did, and such was Judas, how is that he is the "son of destruction"... but was not revealed?

4. If the son of destruction was NOT yet revealed at the time the writer made the statement, how could he have meant Judas?

5. If Judas was/is the "son" of Destruction... who is "Destruction"?

6. Why is another, besides the Adversary, called the "Destroyer"?

7. "Who" was the "Destroyer" that killed the firstborn of Egypt?

8. Is Satan allowed to kill? If so, can you give me an account that shows that? (I can give you a couple where it seems he doesn't have that power).

I have to run and so will let you ponder those things.

Peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

I always thought so, which makes WTS' suppositions suspect. (Matt 27:3-5)


At the time, no, though they were given enough obvious clues. (John 13:21-30)


Contextually, the prayer was over the ones whom God gave (vs. 6). However, one could say this included all FUTURE ones, thus the son of destruction was not yet present and thus could not be Judas.


Good point to ponder.


Since it appears Judas wasn't/isn't, the question is moot.


Where is the Adversary called the "Destroyer"? I've been looking but not finding. The "Destroyer" who killed the firstborn in Egypt was God himself. Another instance was ones who were murmuring. 1 Cor. 10:10 alludes to an instance of murmering. I assume this was the assembly who sided with Korah. God caused the earth to open up and swallow them. James 4:12 says that there is One who can both save and destroy. It seems to be talking about God. So, my answer is: God.


God. (WTS says it was an angel... I'm trying to figure out where they get that from.)


He wasn't permitted to kill Job personally, but he was permitted to do whatever he wanted with everything of Jobs, which apparently included his children. (Job 1:12) He caused Job's children to be killed, so I'm thinking yes. In addition, 1 Cor 5:5 would seem to indicate he has that power. He can kill the flesh, but cannot destroy the spirit.


My brain hurts.

Revelation 12 as well pup!

Love Justmom

OFF TOPIC:

Good grief! Another lie from WTBS. As far back as the WT Library goes (Watchtowers from 1950, books, etc.), WT says it was God's angel / God's angel of death / God's angel of destruction that killed the firstborn (which I never questioned until today), yet the Bible, even the NWT, says it was God himself that did it. I looked at every reference just now and there is no explanation whatsoever as to why they attribute something to an angel that the Bible says God did himself. Read Exodus 12 if you want to see what the Bible says.

Its in verse 23 (chapter 12, of Exodus)... I had to look it up, myself, Leaving.

When the LORD goes through the land to strike down the Egyptians, he will see the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe and will pass over that doorway, and he will not permit the destroyer to enter your houses and strike you down.


Remember that often time God is credited with having stuck someone down... when He did not. Like Uzzah touching the ark... his death came as a consequence of that - there is a thread around here somewhere on that - God was not actually angry with him, then killing him.

In Egypt, it seems that He released or simply no longer held death back (the destroyer), who could not touch anyone who belonged to and exercised faith in God, by putting the blood of the lamb on their doorsteps (their houses). So that these ones who belonged to God lived... but those who put their faith in Pharaoh and other such gods, had the protection from death that those gods could provide... which is none.

And of course it serves as an example to us... death exists... but has no authority over Christ (the lamb) and those who belong to Him (those who are covered by His blood, and all those He has written in his book of life).

I personally feel as though I am missing some understanding as to the releasing of death... but I will wait until I may receive more.

Peace,
tammy

To get us to curse God, and die?

I don't think he stands to gain anything for himself anymore... but we do stand to lose something. Life. Have you ever known or known about anyone who simply acts upon what is in them... and what is in them is anger and/or hate and/or jealousy (jealousy being a big one)? People don't always act to gain something except to cause others to stumble, fall, be hurt, etc. Because that is what they want to see happen.




Dunno.

Either way, it is still our choice to act upon that which he tempts us with, or tests us with.

Peace,
tammy

Interesting, Tammy. NWT says:
Then when Jehovah does pass through to plague the Egyptians and does see the blood upon the upper part of the doorway and upon the two doorposts, Jehovah will certainly pass over the entrance, and he will not allow the ruination to enter into YOUR houses to plague YOU.

I never would have seen "the destroyer" because I didn't compare other translations like I usually do. Strange that NWT would use "the ruination".

Ok, maybe WTBS didn't lie after all in this case. I stand corrected.