xjwsforChrist

Yet, Our Lord stated:

13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.—Matthew 7:13-14.

His words, not mine.

--Armand

Very JW in feel, that, Armand.

That is Chars favorite phrase lol

Says it all, Zoe!

If that's the feel people want...hey...I am not one of the people saying they object to this or that, or such and such a belief is objectionable.

Makes the title of the forum a bit misleading, though.

xjsforChrist - which you are, Char, and I think everyone here is (exception of Puppy). So of course you are welcome! As is everyone who wants to be here, regardless of a jw background (or present ground; just with the understanding that this forum is from an exjw perspective.) As well as from this aspect:

Non-Religious Christian Spirituality

So I don't think there is anything misleading.


Peace,
tammy

as long as Chariklo is on this forum is the goal to get her to renounce her ties to Catholicism?
I know it must be weary for her to seemingly always having to defend her flavor of faith.

So Char you know where you stand on this issue and you know where the others stand. I don't see how the back and forth will have any effect on changing opinion as each side is entrenched. I suggest that you simply not respond to any posts that are condemning of the Roman Catholic Church and its belief system which you and many mothers share.

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Also in the flipside perhaps you shouldn't post anything that references the Roman Catholic Church

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

No, the goal here is simply to be FOR Christ.

People reacting against the RCC has nothing to do with Char, and everything to do with the religion. People have kept quiet instead of speaking, and attempted not to bring up the RCC, out of respect and love for those among us who are loyal to the RCC. I tried to avoid it altogether when the issue first came up, because I cannot lie and state that the RCC is not part of 'her'... or any of the other things that I stated earlier in this thread... and I also did not want division. Religion was bound to cause that. ( Imo, adding a religion into the mix means one has to defend the religion as much or more than Christ, himself. ) But when the topic of the RCC is brought up, or various christian beliefs and practices, then people are going to speak about those practices or denominations in comparison to Christ, himself.

That can happen in a discussion without the anger, and with love in mind for one another, and for Christ. But often, it feels personal. I know, lol.

But it really is no different than if someone came here who was pro wts, and attempting to discuss via wts doctrines and teachings. Those too would be held up and questions, and countered if possible.



Peace,
tammy

Are we agreed that Char is for Christ and not against?

I feel that too much attention is given to the method and type of faith and doctrine and that creates a fog that diffuses the light. Catholicsm works for Char and for many people and I feel that their method doesn't hamper their relationship with God. Are there many ways to have that relationship or just one way(and I'm not talking about the quote of Jesus which says that he is the way to the Father)

It's the chip on the shoulder verses the beam of wood through an eye example an oft cited argument is that religion is made by man and organization and not of the Source. I counter that even the methods followed by the people here who run counter to organized religion and artificial systems made by man are themselves following a method made by man as they themselves are human.

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Char loves Christ and God, and I don't think that is even in question.

Char is not on trial.



The wts works for some people too, Pup. I believe Char will question that religion, even to the point of condemning it, even though it works for some people in it. That does not mean the religion has not misled them and/or hurt them, and so it is that religion and its teachings/actions that are questioned. Same as the RCC.

I disagree with the RCC. I do respect Char her choice.


Peace,
tammy

Agreed as I'm also of the mindset that the JW system works for some as well

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Speaking for myself I know God by what I observe in other people, how other observe others, and in how others observe me

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

Like as in observing love?


(All of your smilies are question marks... that i am assuming are winkies... but I find that it is amazing how much a smilie can add to the meaning of a comment ; ) )

Peace,
tammy

Majority of my smilies are winking ones because im used to not using the shift key on a keyboard to make a colon so I have lazy smilies @;)

Observing love, anger, tolerance, sympathy, sadness, all

_________________
To fear me is to love me....

I am thinking about all this, but, just one tiny point.

Tammy, you wrote:



Now, here is the thing. You are not alone in saying that. Others have said it online, and even members of my family, or maybe, thinking about it, just one daughter, but it struck home very sharply. Yet in my mind and heart I always had the deep down knowledge that, contrary to JW teaching, baptism is in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and recognised across all denominations as baptism per se, apart from with JW's and probably Unitarians. (I think I've said as much or similar before and Shelby actively disagreed.) I knew that being re-baptised is a logical non-sequitur, as much a conceptual nonsense as drinking the same glass of water twice. It can't heppen. I was baptised at two months old. Once and for all.

Jehovah's Witnesses combine the concept of baptism with the concept of personal choice, thereby denying the power of the Holy Spirit in baptism. It is as though nothing happens at baptism other than a person's public declaration of choice. The Watchtower allows no concept of sacrament, no outward and visible sign of an inward invisible grace. They speak of God's (Jehovah's) Judgement...they'll say "Jehovah and Christ" or even, as some say here, "God and Christ" as if the two are not both separate and one...what God will do, Christ will do.

But, I knew, deep down, that once I had been received into the Catholic Church I could not be un-Catholicked, as it were. From my point of view, I was never a JW, and yet, it was true, to everyone else I was presenting in that light.

Yes, I was brainwashed. They did a good job on me. But, in my heart, deep down, I knew that it wasn't so yet. So, as to whether I was, as you say, a JW, I don't think that was totally the case. I did not lose my powers of reason, which basically has to happen before one becomes fully a JW. One has to accept that the little brown "Reasoning" book actually contains reasoning rather than propaganda.

As I approached their version of "baptism", and definitely helped by the behaviour of two elders and an elder's wife, which I now recognise...and at depth knew at the time...was God's means of intervening and showing me exactly the reality of what I was doing, I saw with total clarity the horror of the abyss yawning before me. I had been telling myself deep inside that deep down I was still Catholic, and therefore safe. I knew that once Catholic, however badly lapsed, I could never be other than Catholic.

As I write that I know that some will "take issue" with that, maybe arguing ....because I can see the keyboards getting active now...that I have absorbed Catholic propaganda. *sigh* Those immersed lifelong within the Orwellian Watchtower have absolutely no knowledge and no experience of the fundamental simplicity of the Mass, of the sheer beauty and joy and personal encounter with Christ during the course of Mass itself and of the physical and spiritual reality of Holy Communion, so the task of getting across the actuality of faith to minds set to deny it is something to which I believe I am not equal.

The reality of Christ's love within the Church is explicitly portrayed by the attitudes and actions of priests and people when I returned to it, which I did not do right at the very beginning. For six months I was, as it were, in the wilderness. As I have said before, I went back to the Church and came here at the same time.