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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:21 pm 
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What portion are you referring to?


Pretty much every portion (peace!). Well, 'cept maybe the "listen to me and Shelby on sixscreens" portion. Not sure she could handle that... AND/OR both of us... all at one time - LOLOL!

Peace, dear Skally... and lemme know what Saturday after 2/28 is good for you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Pardon me, but she is a grown ass woman. She will have to figure her own self out, soon. She just doesn't know it yet. FOCUS ON YOUR KIDS.

Think of it this way: you will be demonstrating by your walking action that you are NOT a weak man. Staying there continues to feed your weakness to not walk away, for good. YOUR KIDS WILL WITNESS THAT AND ONE DAY IT WILL HIT THEM THAT YOU WERE STRONG IN LEAVING, NOT WEAK. THAT INDEED YOU DID THE RIGHT THING FOR YOURSELF. R WE NOT THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON WE KNOW? HOW CAN YOU BE A GOOD FATHER IF YOU BECOME SO WEAK? [dang crapslock!! ]

Have your wife join me and shelby saturday on the conf call. lolol we will 'encourage' her.


So, you would have said all of this to lq in person? Why does it matter? I am corn fuzzed now shelbers. What was so blunt here??? ??/?? I'm danged curious now woman.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:24 pm 
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Hello LQ....

A lot of conversation has transpired here.

Skally mentioned you need to show the strength to your family and walk away. Not the weakness to stay a part of something you know is not truthful.

Although this may seem true, if you walk away and not to THE ONE that IS THE TRUTH which is our Lord and savior Jaheshua the chosen one of Jah, you will find yourself like most xJws that continue angry, bitter, lost and without faith in Jah altogether.

Now as Shelby mentioned, if you wanna leave and just be free from it all, then fine. Some do and have a relative amount of happiness. But this too is only temporary.

But if you wanna have a personal relationship with Christ, then religion is something that is behind us now that he calls us to belong to him only.

If your family woke up tomorrow, what would you really want to be able to offer them?
Temporary happiness or them seeing your faith and relationship with CHRIST?

Which one would put your household in line to be saved?

But as always, it is our choice.
Love your servant, sister and slave of Christ Justmom ( Kim)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:34 pm 
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One thing I have asked for multiple times is to be able to recognize his voice unequivocally... without a doubt that it's him. After all, he said "the sheep follow him, because they know his voice." One would think his voice would become recognizable, or at least apparent that it's not just me having a conversation with myself in my own mind. I haven't actually HEARD anything. Not with physical ears, not with a strong feeling, no visions, no dreams, nothing. I don't know what having holy spirit feels like. I don't know what his voice sounds like


This is pretty much how I have felt, too, LQ. Just wanted you to know you're not alone.

I also find no fault in what the others have said; I don't believe you even need Christ to tell you that the WBTS is wrong; I found out from men. It was hard to accept and it took me a long time to do that. From your comments, it seems you have already made up your mind that you do not want them.

I feel so bad for your situation; it is one thing to lose extended family - it is another to lose your babies, even for a time. Part of you dies away. We can know that doing the right thing will be best for our family in the long run, but can we put their best interests ahead of our own need for their love, affection and association? That's a tough one. Count the cost, brother.

Please do not be pressured by any of our comments here; work it out between you and Christ. And thank you so much for putting yourself out there, and to Final Call for this topic.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:05 pm 
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ataloa,

Well said. I agree. And hope lq takes what he can use, as was offered here in various degrees, and just simply leave the rest. :)

~skally~

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:15 pm 
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kim,

your post gave me butterflies. just sayin'. nervous butterflies. it just sounds so much like a jw trying to get a 'leaver' to stay because life out there w/out it will only prove to be null and void. i do hope lq sees it as only one of the dregrees i mention above, because it all sounds so familiar.

like, what if he hypothetically does not walk that 'Way'? Will he be weak, still? Will his strength to walk out of the death tower all be futile then? It would seem so according to your post.

I think it's a good idea to take a few steps back from ALL the dynamics of religion and GO WALK A LONG STRETCH OF GORGEOUS BEACH AND DIP YOUR LONGING TOES INTO THE LUSCIOUS SAND. YOU WILL FEEL NOTHING but STRENGTH MY MAN! Your weaknesses will gain strength. Let the Water set you free LQ.

Love, ~skally~

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:35 pm 
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Peace to you ALL! There are many people who, if you asked them, would respond that they are VERY happy... and do not believe in or serve (a) [G]od. Of course, the "happiness" they are referring to isn't the "happiness" Christ referred to. The happy they refer to is right now and in this world. And... it is real. For NOW. One CANNOT serve the True God, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... or His Son... however, with a view as to NOW. The promise for such ones for NOW... is a "torture" pole. NOT a rose garden. Make NO mistake about that.

That promise, however, has two parts: carrying one's torture pole now... but for DOING so... receive a kingdom... and eternal life... LATER.

Now, given the relatively short lifespan of humans... and some of the other... mmmmm... "promises"... that some believe in (say, never ending sex with 72 virgins... or something like that)... as well as how long it's been SINCE such promise was made... it is entirely understandable how such a (future) hope/promise might seem... well, somewhat lunatic... to some. I would not be stating the TRUTH if I said that it DIDN'T sound so.

BUT... it is true. I have no way to convince ANYONE of its truth - I can only share what I receive that makes ME know it is. And that's all I have EVER tried to do.

Each one must decide for himself/herself. In truth, JAH will not settle for less. He will not accept someone because someone ELSE made them/convinced them to serve Him. If it's not THEIR will and desire... and from THEIR own heart... it is a "lame" offering, not an "whole" offering. Because it is not WHOLE-souled (well, of the whole spirit).

The admonition is "You MUST love God... with your WHOLE heart, soul, mind, and strength." Now, this "must" isn't... "You must, or I will kill you," or some melarkey like that. Rather, YOUR love... MUST BE FULLY GENUINE! The emphasis is not the "must", as in "You'd BETTER, or..." nor is it as to "love", as in "You'd better LOVE God...".

It is IF you love Him... such love MUST BE WHOLE. As to your heart, soul, mind... and strength. Not compelled. Not out of fear. Not because someone else told you to or said you "should"... or will not love you if you don't.

Bottom line: IF you want to serve God, it MUST be your choice, it MUST be out of love, and that love... MUST be whole. That really IS the bottom line.

And where is Christ in this? If you truly love God, then you will DO what HE says. And HE said:

"This is my Son, the Beloved. LISTEN to HIM."

Hence, you MUST kiss the SON... to PLEASE God. And, if you truly LOVE Him... WHOLE-LY... then you would want to PLEASE Him, yes?

Why, though, SHOULD you love God? I can't answer for anyone but myself: I know what I was, what I've done, what I am and what I still DO... and so am grateful... TRULY... that He allowed His Son to give his life... and blood... for ME. To cover MY error(s). That he did so for EVERYONE is wonderful, yes. That I am INCLUDED in that "everyone"... is more than I could EVER repay. My love, then, is the LEAST I can offer, IMHO. And so, I offer it. Whole-ly. I needed... and still need... a savior. And one was mercifully given. For me... AND for my household.

THAT is what all of this is about for ME. THAT is why I share what I do... and put myself "out there" as I do. NOT to BE something... or because I think I AM "something". Not because I think I deserve "something"... or even because I have been promised something. But because I KNOW I am nothing, in and of myself. TRULY no better than anyone else... and a lot worse than many, if not most.

Each one must decide what it is about for THEM... if it is even ABOUT anything, at all.

I hope this helps.

Peace... and for those who DO choose to carry their torture pole, know this: you don't have to carry it ALONE. A my dear Lord said:

"Take MY yoke. For MY yoke... is kindly... and MY load... is light."

As with ALL of his words, those are true, too.

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and a TRULY good for nothing slave of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:52 am 
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Thank you, ALL!

I read the account of Lot several times. The account said he lingered (NWT) or hesitated (NIV). It didn't exactly say why. It's possible it's because he his daughters were engaged, and he was sad about having to leave his sons-in-law behind. When he tried to get his sons-in-law to leave, they thought he was joking. Why he lingered probably isn't important. That he lingered seems to be. The account said that God wasn't able to start his destruction of Sodom or Gomorrah until Lot was safe (in Zoar).

Anyway, I will take all that every one of you said to me to heart. I get now that I'm not going to get an answer like I was hoping for, or more rather, I really do have my answer, so the next step is up to me.

Thanks, all, and peace be with you!
~LQ


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:22 am 
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I'm glad you have lots to think about, Leaving.

As for Lot, I don't recall that it is written; I would have to go back and check real quick. But I think if you can see why you have not yet left (the only thing really keeping you there now), you'll have a better idea of what kept Lot there.



Peace and much love to you and to your loved ones,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:34 pm 
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Your comments warm my heart on this VERY cold (here - upper 40's) morning, dear, dear LQ (peace to you!). That Lot lingered is important, yes, but WHY could be JUST as important... if WE are lingering, too, yes, as it MIGHT help US see why WE might be doing so? Indeed, THAT we are doing so?

It could be that Lot was hoping to convince his sons in law to come with, yes. But... they didn't. And so the lesson there COULD be that SOME... of those we love/our loved ones love... WON'T leave. Never were gonna. Because they never saw a REASON to. To THEM, nothing was/is REALLY wrong there!

Perhaps it's was Lot's daughters not wanting to leave... for whatever reason, including their fiancées.

I will share the understanding I was given with you dear ones, though, and that is thar Lot hesitated... because he loved his wife... who didn't want to leave. HER heart... and longing... was still for Sodom... because SHE didn't grasp the SERIOUSNESS of its error. She demonstrated that her heart and longing was still there... when she LOOKED BACK. She looked back... because she HOPED Sodom would change and/or be spared.

In looking back, though, she not only ignored the warning as TO doing so but also, in essence, that she really DIDN'T have FAITH in the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH, of Armies. Because she didn't really BELIEVE Him: that the outcry was SO loud, it MUST be done away with! She didn't care about the great harms done IN Sodom. She cared about HER "love" for it. And so she put her desire over JAH's.

And Lot feared... that he was going to lose her if he left; that she wouldn't come with him. He also knew, though, ultimately, that if HE stayed... they ALL would die: he, her, and their daughters. And so he finally gave in and left. And she came with!! But, although she went with him in body, she did not go in spirit.

And so, when she died, he did not mourn her long.

[NOTE: He did mourn her briefly (briefly, because he STILL needed to get himself and his daughters to safety)... after which he simply covered her body with wet salt (from the VERY salty earth there)... which when dried formed a kind of preserving "crust". And then he stood her body up... BOTH, the salt and standing her up... to keep the wild dogs and other scavengers from decimating her [body].

Which was the PRACTICE back then when someone died out there and their body couldn't be carried away. They were SUPPOSED to bury the dead; however, that could not always happen because in SOME places, and that specific area... arid as it was during certain seasons, was one of them... the ground was too hard. Having to leave with virtually nothing, Lot wouldn't have had the tool(s) to dig a proper grave... not were they near any caves that could used as a tomb YET.

A shallow grave, however, would have been dug up by the wild dogs as soon as Lot had left the area. ESPECIALLY if his wife's body hasn't been properly preserved. Since he also didn't have any to the PROPER preserving/embalming spices, salt was the next best thing the people used. Back then, they made a paste out of the salt and a little water (less was better) and covered the bodies to preserve them - to keep them from stinking and DRAWING wild animals, particularly during transport (because there would be danger to any other animals, small children, disabled, or even elderly among them.

And if for some reason they couldn't take the body with, they stood it up. Why? Because the wild dogs (African wild dogs, hyenas, etc.)... won't attack anything HIGHER than ITS head! Their necks can only lift so high... and so their prey is whatever is in their range of sight. A prone body would be in that range. An upright body would not... as they lift their heads high enough to see the eyes. I digress.]

The MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, did NOT turn the wife of Lot into a "pillar" of salt. She APPEARED as if a pillar [of salt] due to how Lot prepared and situated her body. That she was turned so by JAH... is a lie. A lie designed to scare folks and paint the MOST HOLY One of Israel as an exacting and vengeful "master." Both Lot and wife had the CHOICE to stay or leave. Lot could have refused to leave, as his wife could have. Yes, they would have died had they stayed.

But JAH did not KILL Lot's wife for looking back. No, just as He did not kill Adham/Eve for eating from the Tree OKGB - in both cases He merely WARNED such ones NOT to eat/look back... and in one case, what would happen if they DID. What happened, though, did not come from HIM, but from their OWN actions. Lot's wife' heart... could not bear the "loss." And so, it gave out when she looked back... and SAW what was happening.

And I can put my faith I what my Lord, the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit TOLD me about it... because he SHOWED me, at the same time. I saw it. And the Father did NOT kill Lots wife OR turn her into a pillar. Of salt or anything else. It is a lie.

I hope this helps. To understand what occurred with those people, as well as why it might be bebeficial to YOU, any who are listening, to OBEY... when they hear the call to:

"Get OUT of her, MY people... if you DON'T want to SHARE in HER sins... and so receive part of HER plagues!"

Because her plagues WILL come. And those still in her, that great harlot, those toiching her... even by touching her "daughters", those "women" who "defile" men... WILL receive part of them. Will.

Question is: where does one GO after coming out (of her)? As many here know, there is no "where." There is only a Whom.

Peace to you ALL!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:09 pm 
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Tammy:

Then the men said to Lot: “Do you have anyone else here? Son-in-law and your sons and your daughters and all who are yours in the city, bring out of the place! 13 For we are bringing this place to ruin, because the outcry against them has grown loud before Jehovah, so that Jehovah sent us to bring the city to ruin.” 14 Hence Lot went on out and began to speak to his sons-in-law who were to take his daughters, and he kept on saying: “Get up! Get out of this place, because Jehovah is bringing the city to ruin!” But in the eyes of his sons-in-law he seemed like a man who was joking. - Get 19:12-14 (NWT)

Shelby:
Good morning! Cold here, too... was upper 20s when I got up. Brrrr...

Quote:
It could be that Lot was hoping to convince his sons in law to come with, yes. But... they didn't. And so the lesson there COULD be that SOME... of those we love/our loved ones love... WON'T leave. Never were gonna. Because they never saw a REASON to. To THEM, nothing was/is REALLY wrong there!

I hadn't thought of that. Even after reading the account again. Good point.

Quote:
I will share the understanding I was given with you dear ones, though, and that is thar Lot hesitated... because he loved his wife... who didn't want to leave. HER heart... and longing... was still for Sodom... because SHE didn't grasp the SERIOUSNESS of its error. She demonstrated that her heart and longing was still there... when she LOOKED BACK. She looked back... because she HOPED Sodom would change and/or be spared.

I get the point. Truly. Now onto the next stage: how to break the news...

Oh, and thanks for the rest. Fascinating...


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:21 pm 
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Thanks Leaving, for the verses. I understood what you were saying. I meant I don't recall 'it' (the reason that Lot never left) as being written. Then assumed that everyone would know what my 'it' meant. I do that a lot, sorry.


Peace to you,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:27 pm 
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I will share the understanding I was given with you dear ones, though, and that is thar Lot hesitated... because he loved his wife... who didn't want to leave. HER heart... and longing... was still for Sodom... because SHE didn't grasp the SERIOUSNESS of its error. She demonstrated that her heart and longing was still there... when she LOOKED BACK



Yes I heard and understood this too...but not the rest...very interesting Shelby...hence the "pillar" description...

LQ there hasn't been anything further I could add to help you but I want you to know that I wish you well. Many of us have had to face awful choices after the WTBS. Keep praying brother.

Loz x

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:32 pm 
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I heard the same, that Lot did not want to leave because he loved his wife and his wife did not want to leave. At first I was thinking that it was because of his wife and his daughters, and while I don't doubt he loved his daughters... my Lord kept emphasizing his wife.


What you were given to share paints a realistic and very clear picture of what happened and of both Lot and his wife, Shelby, and thank you for sharing as you received.



Peace to you,
tammy


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Yes, dear Loz (peace, dear sister!)... as with all of the other myths contrived by the false styluses of the copyists and perpetuated by men to dominate their fellow by instilling in them a FALSE sense of fear of "God"... by wickedly "bear[ing] FALSE witness" against the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... so, too, this lie.

JAH's warnings are NOT "Do as I say or I will kill you!" They are, and have ALWAYS been, "There is DANGER to YOU in your world if you don't do as I say. GRAVE consequences, even death! So LISTEN to me when I tell you... don't touch, don't eat, don't look back, don't do, etc.,.. OR "do THIS, you MUST do, LISTEN to, HEED, GO, FLEE..." and what have you.

It doesn't benefit HIM - it's for OUR benefit. Through His Son, He is TRYING to teach us to benefit OURSELVES. But who wants to listen to/obey a bully?!

But that is just what our Adversary... and HIS agents, including men who exist among us... want folks to BELIEVE is the case!

We have NO excuse for believing it, though. Because JAH... sent His SON. To SHOW us what He was and is like! THAT One came... to bear witness to the TRUTH. FIRST, about and as to the Father. THEN, as to ALL things.

And can you see HIM turning a woman into a pillar of salt... JUST because she disobeyed him/ignored his warning... and looked back?? How many did he tell not to do something ("Tell no one!")... and they not only disobeyed and told one, but many? What of those in the seven congregations? What of Peter's denial... hypocrisy... even failure to feed the sheep (Greek widows)?

Who of these did our dear Lord turn into pillars of salt? Turn into ANYTHING... or do ANYTHING "punishing" to?!

If HE didn't do it, neither would the Father.

Wanna see God? One only need look at... and see... His Son: the HOLY One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah).

I know YOU already know these truths, dear, dear Loz, so this wasn't necessarily for YOU, luv! I was just sayin'! LOLOLOL!

Peace to you and dear hubs!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar


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