xjwsforChrist

Well, there you are Shelby. You are very very ignorant. And very very silly to expose your ignorance so openly. You just don't understand that there is no Catholic Bible, though of course there are Catholic editions.

Please bear in mind that this discussion originally began over whether or not Catholics were ALLOWED to read other Bibles, which Loz remembered was so with one of her relatives in the early 1950's.

In Britain, yes, most people are VERY well aware of the Bibles available, that is, most people who go to church or chapel or meeting or house group. I suspect that in America there are plenty of educated and aware people too, even people who can check the web for themselves or peruse the shelves of the book shops. So of course I and very many thousands of people in Britain can speak about Bibles and current prevailing practice in Britain. Britain, in case you didn't know, is an ecumenical, tolerant and multi-faith country, where respect for other people's faiths is enshrined articulately in law.

But you don't know that. You don't understand it. You certainly can't accept that frame of mind, as was demonstrated...and I ought to have taken notice, when, in my early days here, I openly and honestly told you I was a practising Catholic. Astonishingly, you told me that would be all right "for now."

As to people who don't pray but only speak to, no, sorry, with God, oops, Jesus, oops, silly me, Christ, in their own head...you are quite correct. I have no idea.

Actually, this is getting silly. Yesterday, you asked me, no, ordered me, in a string of vile and extremely controlling, Shelby-on-a-power-trip silly private messages, and yes, I have distributed them to some, since you no longer respect private correspondence, in that very very silly string of messages, you have asked, no, ordered me not to do "it", by which I understand you to mean I am to stop disagreeing with you. Your order was issued With threat, too! Hilarious, but very very sad.

I understand, Shelby. You don't like to receive back what you dish out. You really can't take it. There, there. It's all right. You can have your own way. Stop throwing your toys out of the pram.

Tell you what, I'll agree with you. Let you have free rein. Give you enough rope so you can ***g *******f and come a cropper.

OK? Happy now? At peace?

As to people who don't pray but only speak to, no, sorry, with God, oops, Jesus, oops, silly me, Christ, in their own head...you are quite correct. I have no idea.


Good afternoon Char,

Where in the world did you draw this conclusion that we do NOT PRAY !!
Please do not mislead certain ones here as to this false statement.

Prayer in absolutely and utmost of importance to our Heavenly Father Jah.
Why would you say differently?

Now as to speaking, conversing back and forth, yes, asking for " anything" in Christs name according to His will....yes this is communication with the one that Jah said to listen to

And you still have a problem with this. I do not understand this at all Char!!!

It's not going to change anything. You do not have to agree with this at all. We understand and are okay with it. But please do not mislead others into thinking what you just falsely said.

With love to you always
Justmom

I don't know about anyone else... but tomato/tomahto... comes to mind here.



Bear in mind that this conversation originally began in a discussion about the actual thread topic... to which people of THIS faith were insulted from the very first page, by you, Char... and no one else. Easy enough for anyone to go back and look.




The point is NOT whether one is allowed to view other bibles or not... the point is that there IS a catholic bible, and since that is the bible that is available at church and in the schools (as i demonstrated), it is the bible that is approved and promoted. As has been amply demonstrated by outside material, and not just someone's word.



Oh I am SURE that this is something that you have twisted to turn into something that it never was to begin with. Just as you are doing on this thread, and have done so on others.
Otherwise you could just quote literally what was said and the context that it was said in. Which I often do for you, when I am challenging something you say now, to something you have said previously.



Since you can't even remember what has been repeated ad nauseum to you, then I must agree. You have no idea.



Even I know that this is a lie. (not that you have been sharing private messages with others... but as to the content) And I am not surprised that your understanding is incorrect. Of course... if you had a real problem with a 'vile' message, surely you would have reported that to a moderator, over some sort of gossiping type deal. Yes?

I do find it funny what you choose to describe as vile though... and certainly NEVER your words to members here.




No, you don't understand, do you? WE can have our faith questioned, challenged, tested... etc. YOU cannot have yours done so, though. Every other faith may be measured the same... except the RCC. If facts are brought out about what the RCC has done or teaches, that are against Christ and what He has taught... you ignore those, and attack the 'messenger' instead.

You know why I wanted to study the bible?

So that men could not fool me into believing doctrines, etc, that are not based on what Christ actually taught. That and that alone, is what keeps me OUT of the RCC.



Char, you seem to be expecting us to take your word... over the information presented... with regard to the church you belong to. That would be like taking the word of jw, on the wts and GB, etc... over what non-biased sources say. Even taking the word of the RCC as to themselves, is like taking the word of the GB as to themselves... over what non-biased sources reveal.

Why in the world would anyone actually do that?


Peace,
tammy

Would you say, then that JWs don't have their own Bible? Just there own edition? JWs denounce vehemently that they have their own Bible. They say that their translation 'simply restores God's name early 7000 times.' I'm not sure I see the difference between "Catholic Bible" and "Catholic editions". Not picking on Catholics here, just trying to get you to see the point. JWs DEFINITELY have their own Bible. No question about it, no matter what they say.

From Shelby, justmom. She rebuked me for using the term prayer.



I agree with you, justmom. Prayer is indeed tremendously important. I am only speaking to what Shelby said to me, and insisted on it, mocking me for using the term. It wasn't in a PM. It was on the forum, though I can't remember which thread or exactly how long ago. But you were party to the discussion. You did not make the statements Shelby did, but you were staunchly loyal to her, which after all is to your credit, and you are clearly her good friend, so that's good, isn't it?

No, LQ, I was originally only speaking to Loz's belief that Catholics are (or rather were in the fifties) forbidden to read a Bible not their own Catholic one. There was a discussion in which Paul Sacramento and I think someone else confirmed what I said.

Shelby then turned it into something else, and I have decided not to continue to show her where she's wrong because I can see she just doesn't understand.

I agree with you, of course JW's have their own Bible, the NWT.

That is not what happened Char, and I cannot imagine how you do not know it.


Shelby never said anything to you regarding prayer that JM did not JUST say to you above.

There is prayer to the Father.

Then there is speaking with/conversations with Christ. Since you do not claim to have such dialogue, then how can you tell US what it is, or is not. And THAT was the source of that discussion... you telling US what it was called, and denying what WE said about our experience. Even though it is NOT something you experience.


Gonna have to keep this honest, Char. Because I am going to call out anything false.

Peace,
tammy

The Catholic bible is the ORIGINAL bible with ALL the books and letters that were 'settled" upon in the 4th century.
A collection of authoritative books and letters, NOT an authoritative collection of books and letters, just to be clear.
Those books and letters were ALREADY viewed as authoritative and it wasn't the council that made them so.
Every bible since them is a VERSION or edition of the original Catholic bible.
What RC read now is a translation of the original Catholic bible or they may also read any of the translations that the Vatican has approved as correct TRANSLATIONS of the original Catholic Bible.

What we have now are editions and/or translations of the original catholic bible OR, in the case of the NWT, a revision of the Authorized version that was used by the JW's till they decided to make their own edition/translation of THAT bible, the AV, which is a edition of the NKJ, which was an edition of the original Catholic bible from the Textus Receptus (the received text).

Ah... missed the context. Many pages in this thread. Hard to keep up.

The reason we got on to this was because we stated discussing how important it is to read the bible for yourself and the view that some have that the church kept the bible from people so they couldn't do that.
Returning to the JW's for a moment, it is funny that pastor Russel said that people don't need anyone to teach them that they could teach themselves the bible but after he died, the Jw's ( under Rutheford) said they NEEDED the WT to teach them what the bible really meant, that without them people would be mislead into believing things like the Trinity and such.
Funny how things work...

ALL of the other WONDERFUL responses/comments aside (peace and thank you ALL!)... I've nothing "better" to do, just now, so I will respond, too, dear Char (peace!)... but you might want to hold onto your hat... or get out your hankie... or consider a (brief) break so as to pull yourself back together, because, well, you know ME:



Coming from THE blackest pot I think I've EVERY seen. Blacker than black, actually, if there is such a color.



There are both, dear one: a Catholic Bible, the Douay-Rheims, as I showed... as well as the many EDITIONS (your word, not mine), borne out in the various translations, versions, and revisions that have come from it.



Ummmm... no. The discussion between you and dear LOZ (peace!) originally began over than. I had absolutely NO comment except to ask whether PERHAPS there WERE some in the RCC who, like those in the WTBTS, prohibited the use of any other Bible except the LATIN version, which is what dear Loz stated. THIS discussion began when you addressed ME and (1) said there was no Catholic Bible, in MY response to dear P (peace, luv!) who corroborated that there indeed WAS (don't see you taking issue with him saying so, though... fancy that) and (2) called me ignorant and pretty much accused me of deliberating lying, telling falsehoods, whoppers, and naughty pokeys. Remember?



Well, I mean, don't look at ME: that's not what YOU said. Remember? I didn't even go there, except to refute that... and encourage you to get a clue. Which, of course, I'm sure you ran off to DO. So, of course, NOW you say such.



Of course, there are. I am one of them. Which is how I knew you were wrong. Sorry... mistaken. **Shellame smiles sweetly**



Well, one certainly couldn't tell that by how YOU "respect" others' faith, could they? Please don't think that I or others here think YOU are in any way representative of the British's respect for others' faith. Heck, I don't even regard you as a good representive of Roman Catholicism... given your ignorance of what they do/teach/have done, etc. I mean, I don't have a problem with you being a Roman Catholic, dear. I DO have a problem with you trying to convince ME that they're as "godly" as YOU seem to think they are... although once crying about how they treated YOU... such that YOU felt the need to run off and join ANOTHER religion... as well as attacking others for THEIR faith... be YOU have never heard of such things (as hearing Christ... well, now... because you once admitted that you did).



First, you right, I don't know, don't understand... nor care or need to... as to whether or how the British regard other folks' faith. I am not sure how you assume that "British" is limited to the RCC, though.

Second, you are lying: I NEVER told that you being a practicing Catholic would be all right "for now." You... are... lying. For one, I would have never told you that being Catholic was ANYTHING... good OR bad. It was irrelevant. If anything I told you THAT. For two, I would have NEVER said it was alright "for now." Who DOES that... and claims a modicum of INTELLIGENCE, let alone union with Christ? Now, perhaps some others that you spoke with BEFORE you came here told you that... but your attempt to attribute such to ME is just... stupid. And beyond deceitful. It's a very sad testimony to what YOU are trying to do here... the same as which you once falsely accused Chappy and EE of doing, when THEY had done nothing of the sort. Which is why my Lord prevented me from hearing you and opposing YOUR wishes as to them: you were lying on them... as you are now lying on me. Trying to take advantage of OUR differences and falsely accuse THEM of being here just to divide... when it's been you, all along. Starting with Loz, whom you accused THEM of trying divide you from. But YOU are the one who caused the division between you and dear Loz... you and me... then you and dear tec... now you and dear 'Mom.

Goodness, Char... does your deceit have NO boundaries? Have you absolutely NO conscience?



You have no idea regardless. And certainly not in YOUR head... as there doesn't seem to be much more in THERE... than air. "Bad" air, too. Prolly leaking out of your heart...



Getting? GETTING??? Dear one, you passed silly WAY long ago.



Now, see, Char... that you won't actually POST a PM doesn't mean you respect their privacy. I absolutely respect the privacy of PMing... so long as one story isn't being told THERE... and another HERE. For ME... once you start lying on the open board... any "forum-poster privileges" you THINK you might have... are null and void. I personally don't like PM'g with certain folks, you now included... BECAUSE you are what I term a "double-poster." You know, someone who lives a double, if not triple, poster life. One way one place, another another place... and so on. Since such ones have no regard for TRUTH, I have no regard for their privacy... when THEY "violate" their own privacy by posting lies.

YOU may think you can hide behind PMs; not with me, though, let's make that VERY clear.



Oh, no, dear one - I did NOT threaten you, at ALL. I PROMISED you. And I won't go back on my promise, I promise you THAT. I will carry it out, if you don't stop.

pram.

LOLOLOLOL! You really don't know me, Mary. That kind of melarkey doesn't work on me, girl. Save that for your other friends. It does not concern, frighten, intimidate, scare, worry, or even concern me. It's simply the usual default "neener-neener" BS that most unintelligent people fall back on when they know they've got nothing of real value... or truth... to day.



I don't even know what that means. Nor do I want to. I just want YOU to stop with the snark. S'all I ask. Discuss ANY topic you wish to, with whomever you wish to. But discuss. Not attack, not cajole, not snark.

Capiche?



Whad'ya mean "now"? I was never NOT happy... nor at peace. YOUR decisions, dear Char, have absolutely NOTHING to do with... nor have ANY bearing WHATSOEVER on my. Whether it's is agreement with something I've stated... or not. I know that that just sticks in your withered old craw, m'dear... but that IS the truth: it has absolutely NO bearing. Unless, of course, you are one day allowed to WAKE UP and get it. Then, yes, of course: I, TOO, will rejoice... with the heavenly host!

Now, let's move on, shall we?

Again, peace (and I AM praying for it as to you, I AM!)...

A slave of Christ,

Shellama

Char...

Do not say and mislead others that we rebuked you for using prayer. That is not true!

The rebuke may have come from ( which I do not remember word for word ) but what I DO KNOW IS....
We told you there is a difference between " Prayer" and speaking/ conversing with the Son!

You insisted that was prayer and we said it was not " with us""... And WHY and HOW...
And now you question and mock this voice that we say is the voice of our Lord that the father says to listen to.....and it continually goes on and on with you.

Please Char
Stop trying to take this glory away from the SON, the Holy Spirit whom we listen and obey due to the Fathers OWN WORDS!!

Why is this so hard for you to see? Char, its not going to change. We will not say that he does not speak just because what you believe in and the form of worship through the church that you trust
DOES NOT teach this is possible.

There is prayer to Jah!

There is a voice that is the SONS!!! " MY sheep know my voice and listen and follow ME"

And yet you continually deny this Char!


But love to you as always
Justmom

And yet PaulS.....

Rutherfords own TRUTHFUL words ( which he had NO idea what he was saying) WERE,...


" RELIGION IS A RACKET AND A SNARE!"


So so true!!!!

....a couple things the JWS did have right!!!


Love Justmom

What I "see", dear P (peace, luv!) is just another example of the WTBTS hypocrisy. The very things they condemnrd the RCC for, they eventually began to do themselves. Why? Because they ALSO committed (spiritual) adultery. Their doing so, however, doesn't negate that the Church did the very same thing "way back when." What's sad is that, as with Israel, a few coupla' hundred... okay, thousand... years go by and folks forget all that.

Goodness, no wonder why the angels laugh at us: SO impatient. "WAAAAHHH! 'Moses' hasn't some back down the mountain (Zion) yet. He PROMISED to lead us out of slavery and to the Promised Land... but NOW he's NOWHERE to be seen! Something has HAPPENED to him! WAHHHHHHH! Wait, did he even go UP the mountain?! Wait... was there even EVER a Moses??!! Nope, we've been left to ourselves! WAHHHHHHH!"

And so, of course, someone steps up and says, "Moses ain't COMIN' back, ya'll! Actually, AIN'T no Moses! He's DEAD - he DIED when he up there in that mountain! So, here's what we're gonna do! Gimmee your gold, your silver, heck, your land, your bank accounts, your insurance, your wages, your children's inheritance... your children... your LIFE... and let's us build ourselves a golden calf. No, wait, let's build ourselves a whole field of 'em. Call THEM "JaHVeH" and say THEY "delivered" us! (Whispers) "Yeah, Harry, I KNOW it's wrong, but if they're stupid enough to keep their hopes up for a man who obviously ain't comin' back... they don't DESERVE to keep their stuff! Let's US take it... and sure, we'll use it take care of them, of course we will!" wink, wink...)

As you would say, m'dear... oiVEY!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Oivey!!

LOL.

Sad, actually... very sad... but true! People have shown that to be true time and time again.


Peace,
tammy