xjwsforChrist

I'm not sure I can agree with this, dear P (peace to you, my dear, dear brother!). And I hope you don't take my disagreeing as opposition (I know you won't, luv - you never do, but I feel the need to ask it). It is not oppostion, but rather, given in the same spirit as dear Prisca and Aquilla gave dear Apollo.

Regarding the Bible being a tool "to help others find [Christ]", I have to disagree. For one, we have Paul's testimony:

"Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

"Such confidence we have through Christ before God. Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the spirit; for the letter kills, but the spirit gives life.

"Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."[/b] 2 Corinthians 3:1-18

We also have John's testimony:

"... see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—eternal life.

I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him." 1 John 2:24-27

But even more than these two, we have the words of Christ (if we still cannot hear him HIMSELF say to us), that:

"You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." John 5:39, 40

And...

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them..." John 6:44

And...

"YOU did not choose ME, I chose you." John 15:16


IF reading the Bible WAS of benefit, then EVERYONE who read it would KNOW Christ... because they would KNOW... they don't need the Bible. The Law (NOT the Bible, which CONTAINS the Law) WAS a "tutor" to Christ. Once Christ ARRIVED, however, NOTHING written (on stone/paper) was EVER needed again. Because what he BROUGHT was a Law that would be written ON HEARTS. So, one can search the scriptures, read the Bible, etc., until they are blue in the face. Until "kingdom come." They will NOT find Christ that way.

Why? Because, like tongues, healing, powerful works, prophesying, etc., it is for UNBELIEVERS. BELIEVERS... don't need miracles. And... they don't need the Bible. Why? Because, as CHRIST is the One who "opens the eyes of blind," dear one. NOT the Bible. It is the BLIND that "study/search the Scriptures"... and yet, do not see.

The Bible does not lead us to Christ. The MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies Himself, is the One... the ONLY One an ONLY thing... that can lead us to Christ. It is NOT because we have read the Bible; it is because of His love and mercy... as a reward for OUR love... and mercy (to others)... and our DESIRE... REAL desire... to KNOW THE TRUTH. John 14:6; John 17:3

If we TRULY want to know the truth, then we will be SHOWN the Truth... and that TRUTH, Christ, not the Bible or anything in it... WILL set us FREE, so that we are NO LONGER blind, deaf, naked, etc. John 8:32, 36; Revelation 3:17-20 And one DEMONSTRATES that one WANTS to know the truth... by LISTENING... TO the Truth. Not by reading the Bible.

Because, again, that One, the Truth, SAID that "study(ing)/search(ing) the Scriptures" would NOT lead to what folks (claim they) want. It is going to HIM, listening to HIM.

I totally understand that doing this, listening to Christ, even entertaining the THOUGHT, can be overwhelming (for some). But it is for the UNfaithful, not the faithful. To the TRULY faithful is it actually a breath of fresh air! An "of COURSE!" aha moment. At least, that has been my experience (with others). They realize they HAVE heard Christ speak to them, some even KNEW it, but doubted because of having been told (all their lives) that Christ DOESN'T speak (although DEMONS DO! What that...??!). That if someone is hearing "God" speak to them, they're crazy/delusional.

Praise JAH, not all of us fall for THAT melarkey any more. We no longer fear man or his perception of us. We KNOW we're not crazy/delusional... and that others simply don't get it because THEY aren't listening/faithful/obedient. We are few, perhaps, but we are who and what we are... and we're not afraid of the world's labels/perceptions. They will believe as they will believe. Nothing we can do about that... because WE are not the ones who call/draw others to Christ.

JAH and Christ are the ones who "reveal" Christ to man. Not we... and not the Bible. The Bible, therefore, is merely a tool that we can use to show others WHY we believe as we do, do as we do... and perhaps help provide some defense for our faith. But that is really all it is. It can do nothing more than that.

So many read it... and read it... and study it... and search it. And yet, they are STILL far off from (knowing) God... because they are light years away from knowing Christ. In SPITE of all their reading, studying, searching... and listening to those who [claim to] have read it, studied it, searched it... and so "know." Yet, NONE of them know.

I hope this helps, my dear brother, truly.

As always, peace to you and to your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ, always,

Shel

Peace to YOU, Shelby, my sister:

What you have written here is beautifully said and exactly on point.

May Jah bless.

--Armand

Greetings and peace to you Shel...

Thank you for your sharing my sister. And my spirit is in full agreement with it all.

IF reading the Bible WAS of benefit, then EVERYONE who read it would KNOW Christ... because they would KNOW... they don't need the Bible. The Law (NOT the Bible, which CONTAINS the Law) WAS a "tutor" to Christ. Once Christ ARRIVED, however, NOTHING written (on stone/paper) was EVER needed again. Because what he BROUGHT was a Law that would be written ON HEARTS. So, one can search the scriptures, read the Bible, etc.,

As to the above thought as I was in the shower LOL our Lord also reminded me of this...

Jeremiah 24:7 & Jeremiah 31:31-34

" I will give them a heart ( not a Bible) to KNOW me, that I am JAH. And they must become MY people, and I their God, for they will return to me with all their heart."

“The days are coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband of them declares the LORD.

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their MINDS and WRITE it on their HEARTS. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,”declares the LORD.

“For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”


CHRIST is the fulfillment of this all. All mentioned pointed to now by means of CHRIST.

My Lord asked me, "What written anywhere even in the new testament is needed to be known by me? Some may say well...the book of Revelation maybe. But this is why it is mentioned so often " Let the one who has ears, HEAR what the spirit says to the congregations."

It is HEARING and obeying that is imperative not studying and reading.

Thank you my Lord Jaheshua for this remainder. It is HEARING ( and obeying) the bridegroom when he arrives not reading and studying.

Thank you everyone for their sharing, peace to you ALL today, love your sister in Christ, Kim

It is HEARING and obeying that is imperative not studying and reading.

Let ANY who wish to be given HEARS and EYES to see and hear the Spirit and the Bride say, Come....take lifeswater which is our Lord and the only means to know truth for FREE!

Love, your sister and fellow servant of CHRIST, Kim

Breath of fresh air is exactly right.



Amen and amen, and yes, praise Jah!

May anyone who wishes, may they be given ears to hear these truths, and also to hear the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU, "Come!" Let the one who hears SAY, "Come!" Let any who wish Come and take the free gift of the water (holy spirit) of Life!



Come!


May you all have peace,
your servant and sister and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Yes, brother. But speaking truth does not mean that one is looking down upon others. Love speaks truth. Love for those who are seeking Christ and would hear Him, come to Him... but perhaps have been taught all their lives by men who do not know the Truth, that Christ does not speak, but that it is the bible they should study and listen to. Love also for Christ in bearing witness to this truth, and to Him as being alive, truly alive, and speaking.


Peace as always to you,
your sister and servant and a fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

While I can understand how you all feel coming from your JW background and how the bible was used to drive a wedge between you and Christ, you need to understand how many have been drawn to God AND found Christ through the bible.
To deny that, while at the same time quoting scripture, is, well, myopic.

All the writers of the NT documents understood the value of the written word, as does Our Lord.

What people need to be reminded of is not that the bible has little value BUT that it is a tool.
Like a finger pointing the way to Christ, don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all the heavenly glory.

Peace to you dear Paul,

Yes but it is not only the WTBS that is responsible for driving this wedge, it is religion all of it that is responsible as well.

As to this comment,
All the writers of the NT documents understood the value of the written word, as does Our Lord.


Our Lord values and needs something written? By man?

If Christ IS the fulfillment of everything written that IS scripture ( remember not all is)...
And he IS The Word of God since the beginning and became flesh John 1: and His name in Revelation 19:13 is called The Word of God...

How can we say he NEEDS anything that is written? Valuing the written word? What is written word or scripture in the NT other than Revelation?

Just a question in regards to this!
Not trying to contend my brother just asking, peace to you always, Kim

PS (Peace to you, PS), who said that anyone here is ‘looking down upon those that still need [the Bible]’? No one that I can tell. Whom among us here are you accusing as being “very arrogant” or “prideful”? Or are you just stating this in a generic sense not meaning that anyone here on this board is such a person? To me, you sound a bit oversensitive. But I could be just reading you wrong.

You state that “most people can’t begin to fathom the whole ‘speaking directly to God’ thing” and that it is “just to overwhelming for them.” Whose fault is that? Mostly it’s the fault of their religious teachers and then ultimately their own. Then you write that you “suspect it was the same way with [your] 2nd and 3rd and 4th generation Christians after the apostles passed away.” There is something you might be forgetting, PS. What? That even in the time of the apostles there was already in motion an “apostasy.” An apostasy IN the congregations among so-called Christians. What does that mean? It means, as Christ stated in one of his parables, that the “wheat” and the “weeds” would be growing up together. What that means is that there WILL BE true Christians (those who have received an anointing) and false Christians (those who have never been anointed and/or those claiming to be anointed but are not) living in the congregations of their time. Certainly by the ‘2nd and 3rd and 4th generation of Christians,” the apostasy that Paul spoke of was in full swing and more than plenty were false Christians—those claiming to be anointed but were not. However, for true Christians, those with an anointing, relationship with God and Christ existed even up to this present day. That does not mean that Christians as properly defined look down on anyone. On the contrary. Christians as properly defined want everyone to come into relationship with God and Christ—YET—it is not Christians who do the drawing or the choosing as to who becomes a Christians. Christians plant and water—that’s it, that’s all. Christians, invite: Come! Take Life’s Water—FREE! But that’s pretty much all they can do. Disciples/Learners of Christ (not yet anointed) are more than welcome to be among Christians. It is an anointing that makes a person a Christian. Otherwise, we’re just disciples—a good thing. As for those claiming to be Christians but who are not, when corrected in the spirit of Priscilla and Aquila to Apollos, they may become enemies if they don’t like what they hear. They may choose to wander off, go away, like some of Christ’s “disciples” did when he spoke to them about eating and drinking his blood—this speech was “shocking” to them, so they left him, abandoned him—even though they were once disciples of his at one time.

Have you ever considered what the word “antichrist” means? Most define it as “against Christ.” And certainly it can mean that. But is that the ONLY meaning? Consider this, might it not also mean “against anointing”? Something to ponder.

You write: “t matters that the first generations felt it important to preserve the written word of the apostles as a historical connection to Christ ( which is what the bible is).” PS, the “connection” is the anointing, my brother. To “preserve the written word of the apostles as a historical connection to Christ” is a counterfeit—a replacing of the real for the false.

You state: “The bible is set up for those people so they CAN find a way to get close to Christ until they do have a personal relationship with Him.” This statement begs the question, Set up by whom? Also, hasn’t Jah already determined how one can “get close to Christ”? “This is my Son, the beloved. LISTEN TO HIM.” From the very first chapter of the Gospel of John we are instructed on how to “get close to Christ”—Listen to him! NOT—Read your Bible.

You write: “Yes, it is sad that some never do BUT I find comfort in the fact that Our Lord doesn't view them any less then those that do hear Him directly.” By all means, find comfort wherever you can--truly. In this world we can use all the comfort we can get. Just realize that real comfort comes from the God of Comfort—Jah, the Most Holy One of Israel. I agree with you that Christ “doesn’t view them any less then [sic] those that do hear Him directly.” Christ specifically came to save sinners. Praise Jah!

PS, have you received an anointing? If so, excellent! Praise Jah and His Son. If you haven’t received it yet, then keep on asking, keep on knocking, Jah will grant it to you by means of His Son. Do not give up in the asking, in the knocking, in the seeking. God wants you to “

[i]OMG! In the writing of this post I am experiencing a HUGE déjà vu moment! What is that?!

--Armand

Beautifully stated Truth my brother Armando, peace!

Thank you! May all praise and glory go to our Father Jah and His son Jaheshua Mischajah who shares this with us all.

Your sister in Christ, Kim

Kim, does the Lord speak to you EVERY time you're in the shower? lol

I'm enjoying all the comments; I'm not feeling well today, so will join in a little later.

LOL...funny you ask dear At and peace to you today.
I have always had a special couple places that when I am seeking to hear an answer or something is heavy on my heart, the shower is one of the places that I have amazing conversations LOL. Might sound silly but it's true. I have a weakness for the sound of water ( I love and miss rivers, springs, lakes) so maybe the shower is the next best thing right now. Although I am looking to buy an indoor small water foundation.

Something significant to Revelation 1:15? Maybe so.....

Thanks for asking and hope you get to feeling better.
Off to work I go, love your sister in Christ, kim

No, Kim, it doesn't sound silly at all; it's a place where there are no distractions and also very relaxing, at least for most women I know. Most of us only get out when the hot water runs out (whoever invented the tankless is making a lot of money for the water companies. lol)

I had always longed to live on water, and for the past several years I have been fortunate to live on a lake or river with its own dam. I love looking at and hearing the water. Sorry for the digression; I have wanted to ask Kim that for a long time.

I need to respond to your comment, dear brother PS (peace to you, always, luv!) that:



Dear one, is it not arrogance and pride on the part of those who keep turning people TO the Bible? Who keep calling IT "the word of God"? In saying they "know" what certain scriptures, verses, passages, parables, accounts, directives, laws, etc., mean... yet, claiming NO possession of or guidance by holy spirit? Not even professing to hear Christ, whom they SAY is alive... but TREAT as if still dead?

These turn people's GAZE... AWAY from Christ... because one has to LOOK at what one is "reading" in the Bible, yes? Or at least feel it, if reading in Braille. These say, "Look to the BIBLE!" rather than "LOOK to Christ!". Yet, the BIBLE says Christ is the Word of God, does it not? John 1:1, 14; Revelation 19:13 Where, though, does it say IT... its pages, its contents... the Law that it contains... is the word of God? Yet, people keep CALLING it that. BY WHAT "SPIRIT" do they do so, luv? Certainly not by HOLY spirit. For THAT spirit would BEAR WITNESS TO AND IN THEM... that CHRIST is the Word.

But look at what reading/using/turning people to the Bible has done. Look at the long, long history... of what has been done "in the name of God," PURELY on the basis of what people read "in the Bible" or think or say "the Bible says." Heck, some even MAKE UP things that "the Bible says," that it DOESN'T. Or completely overlook what it DOES says. Again, that CHRIST is the Word of God.

I want to share something with you, though, that might help you "see" why looking to... putting faith in... the Bible is folly. Before I do, I am to ask you to try and do two (2) things:

1. Put away EVERY paradigm you have ABOUT the Bible, good or bad;
2. Turn to Christ and ask HIM to help you hear and see what it is I am to show you here.

I also want to ask you to consider what Bibles are made of, the materials; what they are, where they come from... how much of whatever it is used to make a Bible... and what happens to the parts that are left over, the excess, if you will. Now read, please, the words given to the Prophet Isaiah:

"He cut down cedars,
or perhaps took a cypress or oak.
He let it grow among the trees of the forest,
or planted a pine, and the rain made it grow.
It is used as fuel for burning;
some of it he takes and warms himself,
he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
But he also fashions a god and worships it;
he makes an idol and bows down to it.
Half of the wood he burns in the fire;
over it he prepares his meal,
he roasts his meat and eats his fill.
He also warms himself and says,
“Ah! I am warm; I see the fire.”
From the rest he makes a god, his idol;
he bows down to it and worships.
He prays to it and says,
“Save me! You are my god!”

Let me ask you, dear one: from what are Bible made? Is it not of paper? And what is paper made of? Is it not wood? Are not trees cut down, then processed to make paper... often special paper... to make Bibles? What, though, happens to the part of the tree that is NOT used to make paper, then Bibles? Is it not discarded? Burned? Maybe turned into particle board and used for, what, furniture... flooring... more?

Continuing...

"They know nothing, they understand nothing;
their eyes are plastered over so they cannot see,
and their minds closed so they cannot understand.
No one stops to think,
no one has the knowledge or understanding to say,
“Half of it I used for fuel;
I even baked bread over its coals,
I roasted meat and I ate.
Shall I make a detestable thing from what is left?
Shall I bow down to a block of wood?”

"Such a person feeds on ashes; a deluded heart misleads him;
he cannot save himself, or say,
“Is not this thing in my right hand a lie?”

The same applies for crosses, and statues of Mary/Christ, etc.: how can ONE part of the tree be holy, such that people SWEAR by what's written on and IN it, stake their LIFE on it, consider it blasphemy if it is dropped, burned, dirtied, or even discarded... bow down and worship BEFORE it... yet the REST of the tree be nothing more than a means to warm oneself, cook one's food, or even refuse to be discarded?? Is not the MEDIUM as "holy" as the contents?

Before you say, no, let's consider the Law... and what it was originally WRITTEN on: were not the tablets themselves ALSO "holy," and not just the writing ON them? The people of Israel were told to write the law, yes, but for what purpose? Let's look at what Moses said to them:

"Hear, O Israel: JaHVeH our God, JaHVeH is one God. Love JaHVeH your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates." Deuteronomy 6:4, 5

Why do this? So as not to forget! But... even with the Law IN WRITING... Israel KEPT FORGETTING. Their phylacteries, scripture carrying cases, armbands, mezuzahs, etc., NONE of that helped them keep the Law! Because NONE of those items wrote anything ON THEIR HEARTS!

And so the time came when, as dear 'Mom (peace, luv!) shared above, JAH said, through Jeremiah:

“The days are coming,” declares JaHVeH,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares JaHVeH.

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares JaHVeH.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the JaHVeH,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares JaHVeH.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

And HOW will these know Him? By reading their Bible? NO, dear one! They will KNOW Him... because they KNOW Christ. He, the One who BROUGHT JAH's new covenant TO Israel. Hence, Christ did NOT say, as Jehovah's Witnesses teach:

"This means everlasting life, their [taking in knowledge of you*], the true God, and the One whom you sent forth."

(Their new Bible version now says "their coming to know you" - well, FINALLY!)

Or in some other denominations "their knowing ABOUT you."

They know HIM, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, by coming THROUGH... and KNOWING... THE HOLY (One of Israel), His Son and Christ, JAHESHUA, the MischaJah (Chosen One of JAH). NOT by reading the Bible, luv.

Which is WHY Christ SAID:

"You SEARCH/STUDY the Scriptures because you THINK that by means of THEM you will have everlasting life. And these are the VERY ones (the Scriptures folks are searching/studying) that bear witness about ME. Yet, YOU DO NOT WANT TO COME... TO ME... and have life."

One won't find Christ by searching or studying the Bible, dear brother. Again, if one COULD... everyone who so searched/studied WOULD FIND HIM. Yet, how's that working out for most folks? I mean, truly working out, in relation to being in union... TRULY in union... with Christ?

AND... what of Jeremiah's prophecy about the false stylus of the secretaries/copyists? And Christ's CORROBORATION when he said, "WOE to you... SCRIBES... HYPOCRITES!"??

How, without HIM, can one know what is NOT false, EVEN in the SCRIPTURES... if the styluses, pens, type of those who COPIED it... WAS FALSE?

Yet, many believe it to be infallible containing no error and no contradiction. Heck, the "god" manufactured by the Israelites... and CHRIST himself... are a contradiction, are they not?

The Bible is merely a tool that a believer can use to show a non-believer that what they are trying to help them SEE... IS "written." Because THAT'S what UNbelievers need to DO: SEE.

But true believers don't walk by sight, luv. We walk... by faith. In the voice of the Fine Shepherd. Who calls HIS sheep... by name... and leads them... HIMSELF. And he doesn't need the Law written on stone tablets... or commandments written on paper... to lead them. Because he has written his Law... of LOVE... on their HEARTS.

And THAT is what THEY "read"... and what JAH reads, dear one.

I hope that helps, truly. I realize it's a lot, but, well... you know me (smile!).

As always, the greatest of love and peace to you and to your dear household!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shel

You seem to have read something I did not write.
I did not write that Christ needs anything.
I wrote that Our Lord understands the value of the written word and He does, always has or He wouldn't have inspired men to write.

You do realize that by saying that Christ is the fulfillment of scripture you are stating that scripture has value.

I do not hold the bible above Our Lord, never have and never will, BUT I can't deny that He has told me to USE it to help others to Him (which I have), so to view it as having no value or minor value is something I can't do, nor has Our Lord asked me to.