xjwsforChrist

Not EXACTLY, dear Char (peace to you!). It is an attitude, yes, and empathy, even valuing another as a unique person, including in the eyes of God... but not all HAVE hardships (although all have vulnerabilities, faults, and failings, although not necessarily "like" us)... and yes, can be someone who loves a little, weeps a little, or loves a LOT/weeps a LOT.

But each one is not necessarily a child in the eyes of God, whether they belong to Him through Christ or NOT ("Unless you TURN AROUND... and BECOME like small children..."). Nor is everyone a child OF God. For JAH is not the ONLY "man" who "sowed seed" (through Christ) in the world; another sowed HIS seed, as well. Both wheat AND weeds have been sown, and the latter were NOT sown by JAH, through Christ:

“The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ 'An enemy did this,’ he replied. The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’” Matthew 13:24-30

"Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.” He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.

“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear." Matthew 13:36-43

“... the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."Matthew 13:47-50

For US, though, the children of that other "man" ARE manifest... and can see/discern them... by their fruits, which usually demonstrates some kind of LACK of love... LACK of mercy... even hatred. Doesn't mean they won't (ever) turn AROUND, no. But until they do, we can't just call them children in the eyes of God... OR a child of God... just because WE want to. Not EVERYONE saying, "Lord, Lord" is known by... or joined to the Body of... Christ. Some are "without [the] Law (of love)... lawLESS... and so alienated FROM God:

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’" Matthew 7:15-23

“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples." John 15:4-8

That the two "seeds" may look ALIKE does not make them the same, though. Cain and Abel where brothers, yet one showed himself a child of God and the other manifested his choice of another "father." I would quote our dear brother, John, as to these things, but since his words may be misunderstood (and they certainly have been misused, along with Paul's to try and put others (back) under Law!), I will just say that you can find them at 1 John 2:3-6, 9-11; 1 John 3:1-24. When reading them, though, remember what the "world" was like the day he wrote these things... and what it is like NOW. Things that were "acceptable" THEN are not now, and things that are "acceptable" NOW, were not then.

Even so, love... and mercy... don't change. And so, both... the children of God and the children of the Adversary... are manifest by their "fruits."

Does it MATTER, though, that we might have come to know (by their fruits) that such one is NOT a child of God? No, for we are to pray for and show mercy even to our enemies, yes? And be merciful BECAUSE OUR FATHER is merciful with US, even though WE don't deserve it. But they may still BE our enemy. And if OUR enemy, then Christ's enemy, and God's... and so NOT a child of either of these. Because they themselves to have NOT been "beget" by JAH's (holy) spirit.

For those who do NOT manifest themselves as an enemy, we should absolutely receive as a brother (perhaps even a least one of Christ), particularly if they consider US a brother. For those who do show themselves as our enemies... we show SURPASSING love... and SURPASSING mercy... by helping them, if/when we can and they are in need, yes... and by praying FOR them:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Matthew 5:43-48

The "perfection" our dear Lord is speaking of here is NOT perfection in body, thought, or even deed, but in LOVE. Perfection in that we are to be more concerned with SURPASSING the Law... through LOVE... than that someone has TRANSGRESSED it ("against us").

That we show mercy and DON'T judge, however, does not mean we don't recognize an enemy, dear one... or that we call a child of the Adversary a child of God. Our own dear Lord called those who persecuted HIM... the "offspring of vipers"... or, correctly transliterated the "children of poisonous (and so death-dealing) seraphs (fiery, flying serpents)." Because they were showing, by their FRUITS, including they hypocrisy and hatred of HIM, as well as their treatment of GOD'S sheep... to have IN them the spirit OF the Adversary, the leader of the poisonous (death-dealing) seraphs. HE is their "father," which is why our dear Lord SAID:

"You are from YOUR father, the Devil!"

I mean NO offense, dear Char, but only to share the TRUTH regarding this matter, which sharing I hope helps YOU to see the truth about it, as well.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

I do see where you're coming from in the above post, Shelby.

But, would you not agree that God made all that is? And he made, therefore, each and all of us human beings? So that, to that extent at least, we are his children?

That some by their own God-given free choice take another path, choosing to go a different way, rejecting his truth, is not disputed.

Some, of course, live in situations so dire that they never come to know his love. Would God write them off? It seems to me that He would not. Some live a lifetime and do not ever find him.

I can't, in one short post, even think of the vast number of individual situations and circumstances that might prevent a person from coming to know the love of God for themselves, but God can. He is the God of mercy and compassion. It seems to me that we must all start out with something like the blueprint of being his children, and as to the rest of it, God himself, whose very nature is love, will be the one who sees each person, each one of us, as we really are.

Beyond that, I don't see how any of us can know for certain what He, all-seeing and all-knowing, will eventually judge.

If we were to add, Shelby, the little word "potentially" into the statement, so that we have "we are all potentially his children", would it bring our viewpoints closer together, do you think?

Hi, Charliko,

I have to agree with Shelby on this one. She purposely didn't quote what was in 1 John, but I will quote part of it. 1 John 3:9,10
No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

This is what I heard too Chariklo. Thank you for sharing this Shelby.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

I don't think I can add to what Shelby shared as to examples of mercy.

An acts of mercy would be, for one... not withholding mercy when it is asked of you. Mercy does have much to do with forgiveness... of debts that others owe you, of any sort. From wrongs, or monetary debt, etc. But anything that we could to to help others to ease suffering, to serve them, to help them as they are seeking Christ also, and by not withholding things from them that we can give them, seeing that they are in need.

Even words of encouragement when one is down is an act of mercy.


Peace,
tammy

Yes, Tammy.

All of that, and kindness, relief of the poor, giving of alms, going without to feed another, withholding judgement, and so much more.

Thank you, leaving_quietly. I see your point of view, as I do Shelby's, but I do not believe in taking bits of Scripture and interpreting them literally against the message of the whole. This is what the Watchtower does, and it leads down paths of error.

Loz, you have heard as you have heard. I don't think God says different things to different people, but I do think His words can be interpreted through the filter of one's own personality and experience. You won't agree, and so we must agree to differ on this point.

Then I think, by this very statement, dear Char (peace to you!), that you have answered your own question.

Some, of course, live in situations so dire that they never come to know his love. Would God write them off?

Of course, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies, would not write such ones off, dear one. But you overlook two truths, one of which negates your position altogether, IMHO:

1. God loves the WORLD... that He GAVE His Son... which Son said he came to SAVE the world. So...

2. How LOVING would it be for God to allow some... ANY... to NEVER come to know His love?

You often mention about how vast JAH is, dear Char. Yet here... you limit Him. You seem to believe that He would, somehow, ALLOW Himself to be "hidden" from some... based on their CIRCUMSTANCES, and not as a result of THEIR CHOICE (NOT to seek/come to know Him). Yet, you call Him the Father of ALL. What LOVING Father... would hide Himself from His OWN children? Or would not come WHEN they called Him? Or at least, REVEAL Himself to them when they LOOKED for Him?

Those who don't SEE Him, dear one, don't... because they aren't looking... at His IMAGE. True, there are those who have, for millenia, misled many to look at OTHER images. Idols of false gods, even golden calves, etc. But sure you know that the MOST Holy One of Israel would NOT just LET His children be misled!! NO! He SENT prophets and others to TELL them that there were being misled. Then... He sent His SON to tell them.

That Son... is ALIVE, dear one... and SPEAKS... not only to ALL of mankind, but PARTICULARLY to those who are HIS children... the seed of HIS free wife, Sarah... "Jerusalem Above." The NEW Covenant.

Dear, dear Char, I mean NO offense, truly... but this is why you and I often... mmmmmm... collide: what you say about God... does not comport with what you BELIEVE about Him.

I hope this helps, though. I hope you can see, by your OWN words, above, how some are NOT His children. Not by HIS choice... but by THEIR OWN choice. JAH does not WANT a "house" of people who must be MADE to do His will; He want a "house" of those who WANT to do His will. WANT to because (1) they LOVE Him, and (2) they know HIS will is righteous, ALWAYS, although theirs may not be.

So, please, think on what you believe about the MOST HOLY One of Israel... and in light of what YOU yourself KNOW: that not all CHOOSE Him as their Father, luv. And so, He gives them what THEY want: to NOT be [His children]. He does not choose for them; He allows each of us to choose. For ourselves... and our children, if necessary. Some children, however, choose Him, still, in spite of their parent(s) "will."

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

That's a rather interesting, though unexpected, response, Shelby.

First of all, you say that I seem to have answered my own question by the sentence you quoted. But which question were you thinking of? My question was to you, whether if we both acknowledged that, since God made everything that there is, we might agree that we are all potentially his children, and so find that our viewpoints, yours and mine, would come closer together. I made that suggestion, because at times, contrary to appearances, it seems to me at times that in fact we might not be so far apart. I was trying to find common ground, roots of belief that we both accept.

Then you say, without explaining why, and to me it seems a random non sequitur, though that may just be that our backgrounds and experience are so different, but you say that I am overlooking two truths, which at first you appeared then to enumerate. You say:

1. God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but have everlasting life.

Yes. That is truth. Why do you say I am overlooking it? How could I be overlooking a fundamental tenet of faith? THE fundamental tenet of faith, indeed.

Then, and to me inexplicably, you put another item, numbered as 2, but it isn't a statement of truth as you said, it's a question to me. You ask, thus:

2. How loving would it be for God to allow some...any...never to come to know his love?

Well, in answer, I can only say that that is a hypothetical non-question, for it deals only in speculation and in querying the ways of God, which as humans we can't do and shouldn't attempt to do. But it is not the second of the two truths that you had previously said I was overlooking. So, basically, Shelby, you have me flummoxed there. And in any case, that second question of yours to me actually refutes your position, if you were holding one, because of course God is indeed our loving Father in heaven and whatever his will and intention is he will, in his own good time, bring to pass. Sorry, Shelby, you know perfectly well...or at least I thought that at the very least you acknowledged...my faith in God. So I just don't understand what you're trying to say.

Your post reads as if you are assuming that I have a position, in fact you say so, categorically, a position which was to be negated, in your words, by the two truths you were going to state. But it isn't the case that I was holding a position. I was not trying to be contentious. I was actually trying to find a basis of common ground on which we were in agreement. From which understanding can grow.

Please know that I don't take your post as critical or hostile. I just think there's mutual incomprehension going on here.

For reference: Psalm 100:3 "We are his people and the sheep of his pasture".

1 Timothy 1:15: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners."

You say that what I say about God does not comport with what I believe about him. Can you at least acknowledge that you could rephrase that statement to say that, according to your understanding, you BELIEVE that what I say doesn't fit with my belief?

It's perception and understanding, Shelby. You don't "get" what I'm saying, and I'm perfectly prepared to acknowledge that I may not "get" what you're saying.

I'm just trying to bridge that gap in understanding between us.

Before I finally submit this post, may I please just add that the title of the thread is misleading. I am not saying everyone is deserving of mercy. I am saying the same as you, as I understood you. No-one, none of us, not one, is deserving of mercy. Mercy from God is freely granted, freely dispensed. I'd just like to add that from God's perspective, a perspective that none of us by our very human nature can ever experience subjectively, He, God, may very well see sin and goodness very differently from the way we understand things. Where we see gross sin, God may focus on the little bright lights of kindness and compassion.

Who knows?

Your response is interesting to ME, dear Char (mornin' and peace to you!), because I didn't perceive that that was your question. Because what you actually asked/stated was:



Now, you've added the word... and so the implication... of "potentially" God's children. Which, while a wonderful prospect, IS a prospect and so an entirely different thing, is it not? Because potential is not IS... is it... but only perhaps MAY be?

I addressed what IS, though, dear one, as WELL as what MAY be. You only addressed the first: what IS. And so, again, you've really answered your own question. For if one has the POTENTIAL to be a son (of God), one cannot already BE such. Yes? And that was your question: as to whether, since God made all things... including each and all of us human beings (although, I would argue that you're not entirely accurate there, either, but that's another matter).... to that extent... "we ARE his children." Not, "we all have the POTENTIAL to BE His children.

Now, I realize that you might consider this semantics but it's not, truly. Yes, I understand that many say things and expect others to "gather" what they MEAN... even if they SAID something ELSE... but surely you realize by NOW that I am a woman of the "say what you mean and mean what you say" ilk. As is Christ. And I look for no less from others because, well, to expect something else would, IMHO, imply that they're lying even as the words leave their mouths. Where is the love in THAT, though? Yes, I do realize that most DON'T say what they mean... at least, in the modern western world. But I take what others say at face value and so assume they MEAN... what they SAY... because I have come to know that SPEAKING TRUTH with one another is a requirement (of God and Christ). And so our yes is to MEAN yes... and our no, no, as anything else... is from the wicked one. Yes?



Thank you for clarifying what you were trying to do, dear one, and I TRULY appreciate the effort; however, I cannot agree with what you STATED in your "question/suggestion", even for the sake of finding common ground. Because it is not TRUE. That shouldn't negate any common ground we can have between us, though. It just means that one of us might have to adjust our thinking/understanding to REACH that place. Unfortunately, it can't be ME... because, again, what you initially asked/stated is not TRUE. That you now add the word "potentially"... and so change YOUR initial position... yes, we are now on that common ground you sought. Because that, that all have the POTENTIAL to become God's son... IS true. VERY.



I realize (and have been chided by others who wish to receive it from me but haven't), that "social etiquette" calls for one to ignore/overlook another's... mmmmmmmm... errors... in thought and/or words... for the sake of "diplomacy," dear one, which is how the world often reaches "common ground." Such can also be quite deceitful, however, as well as lacking in love. At least love, as God and Christ define it. You see, you and I claim a common bond with Christ. And for that reason, when speaking ABOUT God and/or Christ, we... you and I... are OBLIGATED... to speak TRUTH... to one another. So, I COULDN'T just "go along to get along," here, sorry. I offered no FURTHER explanation, however, because I truly believe I was very clear... and thorough... as I usually am... to begin with. That you are CHOOSING not to HEAR the truth in what I shared with you... is on you, luv. YOUR choice.



I did say that... and that you are overlooking it because, again, of your INITIAL implication: that all humans ARE God's sons, not that all have the POTENTIAL (as you NOW state) to be such sons. That "potential" is based on one having an active faith. Which you left out and so the verse appropriately explained.



I did, because YOU suggest that there have been/will be those who, because of their circumstances, never get the CHANCE to know it. That is entirely untrue, dear one, and if you THINK about it, you would KNOW it is. Because you cannot say, in one breath, that God IS love... and then, in the same breath, that He would not ENSURE that ALL have the OPPORTUNITY, REGARDLESS of their circumstances. Because LOVE... would ENSURE that they did... REGARDLESS of their circumstances. So, you have to choose, dear one. Either God IS love... or His love is lacking somehow, as to these you referred to.



And I didn't. YOU did. YOU... put a limitation ON Him... that SOMEHOW there are those who are even beyond HIM, whose circumstances even HE can't penetrate... so that they never even have the CHANCE to know His love. That IS what you've implied, dear one. And I'm sorry if my disagreeing with you on this offends - that is NOT my intention - but I cannot agree with you here.



I think your last statement here is the truth of the matter, dear one: you truly don't understand what I've stated. That could be, though, because you're trying to do so on your own, trusting in your OWN "intellect," rather than asking for holy spirit so as TO understand. Because it really was quite elementary... and TRUE. We don't always "see", though, do we, even the simplest or truthful of things? Eyesalve can always help, though, dear one. Revelation 3:18



Yes... and yes. Well, neither were assumptions, actually, but truths. But I hear what you mean.



Please know that I did NOT take you as being contentious, not at ALL. And I did not mean to BE contentious. As ALWAYS, dear, dear Char, I was only trying to expound to you the Way of God "more accurately."



Given that you now include the word "potentially," perhaps there was the first time 'round. Again, I responded to what you STATED, and had no reason, IMHO, to believe you MEANT anything other than what you stated: that all humans are sons of God. If that is what you MEANT then, again, I must disagree. If you MEANT to state that all have the potential to BECOME sons of God, then I VEHEMENTLY agree with you... and I think my responses show that.



Who is the "we" being spoken of here, dear Char? ALL of mankind? Or... Israel? I think that if you read the Psalm in context, you will know the answer to this. And perhaps if you also read the 31st Chapter of Jeremiah.



Yes! And while it's true that ALL have sinned, Paul did NOT say... as YOU seem to imply... that Christ came to save... ALL sinners. He said he came to save CERTAIN SPECIFIC sinners. John 3:17 Yes? Starting with Israel... and of these, the Jews FIRST... and then with those who "go with" her: the NEW "Jerusalem." Yes?



I am sorry, but no, I cannot. I clarified, again, WHY I state that: because of the limitation YOU put on God. Not one He puts on Himself. I realize that that might not set "well" with you, but it is the TRUTH, dear Char, and I owe you nothing less, not even to make you "feel better." I CANNOT say I love you... and lie to you, even if the lie makes you feel "good." Because my concern is not NOW... but the END... which can result FROM that lie: you would be misled... and by me. I can't do that to either of us, luv.



Again, if what you're saying NOW is what you MEANT to start with, then you're right: I did NOT "get" what you were saying, no. If what you're saying NOW is what you MEANT... then I apologize for misunderstanding you. I would also ask that in the future you take a moment and consider whether what you ARE stating... is TRULY what you MEAN... and whether what you're stating could CAUSE another to misunderstand YOU... and what you truly MEAN. Because it's not really fair, is it... or loving... to expect others to "get" what you mean... if you haven't SAID what you mean but have said something else entirely. Yes?



Use Christ, luv. He's an EXCELLENT Way to do that! Ask him for eyesalve... holy spirit. Because he, the LIGHT... and holy spirit, "oil" for our "lamps", which is our bodies and IT'S eyes... will HELP you "see." EVEN when it SEEMS very dark.



I apologize if it was confusing to YOU; I don't get the impression that it was confusing to everyone else, though. Even so, I posted what I was given to post. In which light, I am SURE those for whom it was INTENDED... "got" it. I am sure of it.

I'd just like to add that from God's perspective, a perspective that none of us by our very human nature can ever experience subjectively, He, God, may very well see sin and goodness very differently from the way we understand things.

Now, see, here... you've done it again. You start with "from God's perspective," which you follow with "that none of us... can ever experience subjectively...". You deign to GIVE God's perspective, which you ACKNOWLEDGE that NONE of us... which includes you, dear one... can ever experience subjectively. The first is you GIVING "God's perspective," then negating that you can even HAVE God's perspective... but also entirely negating HOLY SPIRIT, through which we CAN have the mind of CHRIST... who is the IMAGE of God... and who SAID he withholds NOTHING that HE knows from his friends.

In which case, we CAN now how God, the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... sees sin and goodness! By how CHRIST sees it. Which "viewpoint" HE gives to us. Yes?



If we are joined to Christ, dear one... we are also joined to the Father. Because in being one with HIM (Christ), we are one with the Father. Because HE is one with the Father. And so... THROUGH HIM... we will see sin, ANY sin... gross or not so gross... AS the Father sees it. To start, we will see... that sin... is sin. That there is no "ranking" of sin, as man has contrived to formulate. Hence, there is no "gross" sin. There is only sin.

Which is why our dear Lord cautioned us about judging. If you transgress ONE Law... you transgress them ALL. If, however, you live by the Law of LOVE... you can SURPASS them all.

Do you see?



Christ knows, dear one. And through a union with HIM... we can know, too. John 14:23; Romans 8:9, 10; 1 John 2:26-28 Because the ANOINTING... with holy spirit, the "oil of exultation"... which we receive from HIM... will allow us to be taught, guided, and led BY him... into ALL truth. Not SOME truth. Not a PART of truth. ALL truth. And now, while we're still in the flesh.

I hope this helps, dear Char. But I would ask one more thing of you: please... do not place finding a common ground between us... with finding and knowing truth. Many have done that, only to be misled by false christs and false prophets. Seek the KINGDOM... and IT'S righteousness... which cannot be attained, luv, OUTSIDE of truth.

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Hmmm. Still interesting.

I'm tired tonight and I don't really have anything else to say here, except just to point out quietly that it wasn't in the immediately preceding post that I added that little word "potentially". Shelby, please would you cast your eyes back up the page to my first post on this page where you found my question to you? My last sentence...please check...was this.



So, you see, I hadn't just introduced "potentially" into the discussion. It was there alongside, so to speak, from the start. All I was doing was trying to explain my thinking. I don't think I've managed to understand so far why you find difficult what to me is self-evident, and all I can come up with is our different geographical and personal situations. We're coming at it from such different places, and there I don't mean geographical because I am quite certain that Loz would have the same standpoint as you, not because she is "following" you, but because that is where her perception takes her.

The one thing I am sure of is that we all follow Christ. I recognise that. I acknowledge it. That is the starting point behind my presence here.

And I'm very sorry, but beyond that my brain won't produce any more cogent words tonight!

I did see than and my apologies for not addressing that specifically in the FIRST post, dear Char (again, peace to you!), but I did not because of what I thought you meant when you included it. As you stated:



I wasn't interested in bringing our viewpoints together as much as being truthful on the matter, dear one. I took your statement to mean, "Well, okay, Shelby, if YOU need that word, we can put it in, but we really ARE all God's children and so I don't mind the compromise if it'll bring OUR viewpoints closer together...". But I DON'T need that... or such a word... OR our viewpoints to BE closer together. Or together at all. Because OUR viewpoints don't matter, dear one. For me, the truth is all that matters. So, I addressed your position, as you stated it... without the "compromise."



I, too, acknowledge that, dear one... and that it IS the starting point behind your presence here. I've always known that and have ALWAYS considered you my sister in Christ. Have always said that... until you intimated that perhaps that was not the case. I have only hoped that such "union," isn't used, as it often is in religion, as a source of pressure to compromise truth "for the sake of argument" or "unity." If so, I must ask you to count me out. Because I truly just don't know how to do that.

I hope that clears it up!

Peace!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Shelby, our viewpoints do matter if they lead to misinterpretation. Disagreeing with something a person says is perfectly valid and everyone's right. Disagreeing with what one THINKS a person means or intends is not disagreeing in truth. Not at all.

It's not culpable, because it is just misunderstanding, not malice...at least, I don't think you intend anything malicious... but it does create a situation where working towards understanding becomes a very valid and useful exercise that can only lead towards truth.



Where do you think I said that? It isn't terminology I use even, let alone think in those terms.




Shelby, you are making an assumption. "Pressure to compromise truth"? What? Where? How? To make an assumption, to assume that this is somebody's motive, and then to proceed to write "If so, I must ask you to count me out" because you say that you "don't know how to do that" is, apparently consciously and deliberately, to act AGAINST the very truth that you say you love.

I do NOT say anything, ever, to create "a source of pressure to compromise truth". I'm not even sure what you mean by that loaded phrase. It doesn't sound like anything I would find remotely attractive.

You are an intelligent woman, legally trained. You know better than to put words or thoughts as though somebody is thinking or saying them, or intends them. That is more like Watchtower-speak. Their magazines are full of that kind of language...they call it "reasoning".

Disagree with me, fine, but don't put intentions that never were into my words, please. I said what I meant and I meant what I said.

How very disappointing. What a pity. I thought things were improving.

Dear Char... peace to you, truly, and I don't want to do this with you again, truly. So I'll just respond to two things, just to clarify, and then be done if we can do that. First, regarding being sisters in Christ, you posted to dear 'Mom (peace, luv!) NOT to call you sister. For me, if you don't consider yourself HER sister in Christ then you don't consider yourself MY sister in Christ. Because she is VERY much my sister in Christ, as my fellow slave and member of him and his BODY. I KNOW who she is in Christ and so when you reject her as a sister, as you did, you are in essence rejecting me... because she belongs the same One I do. Neither she nor I EVER rejected YOU or told you not to call us "sister." You made that request, luv. And so I was unable in SPIRIT to call you "sister" for a bit (praise JAH, THAT seems to be over! LOLOL!).

But our love for you didn't fail; its still here and there was REJOICING when you came back!

As for me assuming pressure from you, I only stated what I HOPED was not occurring (because I thought that issue was resolved but it kinda feels like "Uh-oh, here we go again?" although through a bit different tack) and that if so, you would understand that I can't do it. That's all.

So, perhaps the time has not come... yet... for you and I to have mutual understanding as to the things discussed. But I'm totally OKAY with that. It doesn't effect my LOVE for you one bit! As I've shared with you before, im sure, I'm not seeking approval/agreement/acceptance/corroboration from/by people. If someone DOES receive/agree/accept/corroborate... wonderful! But I can handle if not, as well.

I'm sure, as a fellow Body member, you can understand that.

Peace to you, truly!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

I really wonder what it be like on the Day of Judgement...

Hello my sister Shelby and hello to you Dear Char..


I want to first say that I do love you Shelby!

Char, I see as well that this way be the starting of the same type of disagreements on matters relating to Chirst as truth.

It is really nothing other than the fact that Shelby as hard as it may be at times for all of us to see and hear, she CANNOT speak anything other than truth. She won't lie to us or flatter us and compromise truth for any popularity when it come to sharing what she hears m our Lord.

I will admit to you Char that for me I have come to understand even further that I " fear truth" more than I thought. Truth exposes us, and makes us completely naked. It is uncomfortable and we are creatures of comfort. Putting that aside and accepting truth frm CHRIST even when it is uncomfortable, hurts our ego, pride, feelings etc...is so important.

But we will never grow in CHRIST if we cannot get past this issue that is ours. Shelby is not perfect and never claims to be, but what she shares ALWAYS is truth and MY spirit ALWAYS bears witness to this even when my flesh doesn't want to hear at the time.

So, I need to share with you that everything shared here is truth. Even when I will admit at times I say in my heart, " uggghhhhh, I didn't want to hear thatttt!" LOL...
Give it a minute, listen to HIM and ask him, "Am I really just having a problem with it because it's not what my church has taught me? And it's not what I want to hear.?"

All that matters is what CHRIST tells us through spirit. And if we are honest with ourselves, when we test it against love and what we saw him do and say and lived, I promise it is always going to be different than what WE personally think. Because the way of man is crooked, our hearts are treacherous, and man has dominated man to his own injury."

So dear Char, open up you heart and ask to hear and see not what man teaches and shows us, but what Jah and wonderful merciful Son has shown us we should be. Those that Profess to be of HIS body!

And as our wonderful merciful lord has extended his hand to all of us and said " COME to HIM"...

I would like to share that same invitation to " COME TO HIM!"
Anyone that wishes and is thirsting to take life's water FREE!...

Love to you always,
Justmom