xjwsforChrist

YES!! And the (very) operative words here, dear 'Mom (good morning, peace to you... and you KNOW my heart is rejoicing along with dear Ataloa and Tec that you ARE speaking out, right?!)... are:

"as long as I continued to hear and obey... I was HIS sheep."

It is not a matter of Christ's sheep being the only one's to hear his voice. It is the hearing... AND OBEYING... that show us to be HIS sheep. ALL of HIS sheep here his voice, as do some who are not his sheep ("Many are CALLED; few are CHOSEN"). That one hears the CALL... does not mean one will OBEY... and FOLLOW HIM... out of the WRONG "pen."

Also, HIS sheep are not the ONLY sheep. Not ALL sheep belong to Christ. As he stated: "When he has gotten all of HIS OWN out..." Meaning, those that are NOT his... are left IN such "pens." They are sheep... who listen to strangers... who follow FALSE shepherds/christs.

Many do not understand: you CANNOT slave for TWO masters. God and money/mammon... or him (Christ)... and some other "shepherds" (hired men). We were not told to FOLLOW the Apostles, but to RECEIVE them... because of the message they had. That message was to FOLLOW... Christ. If we received that message from THEM... we were receiving Christ as the One who SENT them. But he didn't send them... nor did they go out to say... to follow them... or build "churches" on THEM.

HE... and they... said... that it was upon FAITH... IN HIM, the "ROCK"... that his "church"/Body would be built upon. If PETER was the rock... then there would have been no need for the OTHERS, and certainly not Paul. And Peter would have been given the revelation, not John. OR... he would have said that the others were "rocks," too. Rather, HE is the "cornerSTONE" or rock. We, his Body/Church are built upon the FOUNDATION that is the Apostles, those who received his spirit FIRST (John 20:21-23)... and then others AFTER them (Acts 2:1-4). He STARTED with them.

And isn't that how a building is constructed? You lay the foundation FIRST, and THEN build upon it? If Peter was the "rock" then, then PETER was the (only) foundation, him alone. But it was not Peter himself upon which the Body is constructed - it is the FAITH Peter demonstrated when he OPENLY professed Christ as the Son of God.

Which is VERY important. Why? Because, as Christ said... Peter DID NOT LEARN THAT TRUTH FROM MEN. No, he learned it... FROM GOD HIMSELF:

"When [Jesus] came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

"Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

"[Jesus] replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it."


He said Peter was "blessed"... NOT because of what he was ABOUT to say to him... but because of what had OCCURRED with Peter: MAN had not revealed this truth to Peter... but JAH HIMSELF had done so!! Had not Peter been BLESSED to have received such a privilege?? He was... and Christ TOLD him that he had been!

We know Christ is referred to as the "rock-mass" (by Paul - 1 Corinthians 10:1-5) and the "stone" (by himself AND by JAH). What did he say about that rock-mass, though? He had said that PETER knew he was the Son of God because he had RECEIVED that from the FATHER, NOT from men (flesh and blood). Regarding that rock-mass, he said:

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock."

Do you see, dear ones? The FOUNDATION... ISN'T the rock! The FOUNDATION... was built ON the rock! On the "stone". Peter, then, a foundation... was not the ROCK... but build UPON the Rock. Because of his FAITH... which is borne out in his LISTENING to and ACCEPTING... FROM GOD... that Christ was His Son. NOT because MAN said it to him... but because GOD said it to him.

These are "elementary," things, dear ones... but things that, unfortunately, "false christs" and "false prophets" have misled some of us away from. Indeed, they have come into the world to DO so. But we don't have to let ourselves BE misled. We don't HAVE to simply go along with such blinds guides, being led blindly ourselves. Rather, we can follow the FINE/GOOD Shepherd. Listen to HIS voice... as he leads us not only OUT... but THROUGH the "wilderness" between slavery and the Promised Land.

He is the greater Moses... and the only One appointed by God to lead us. Moses was appointed to lead Israel from PHYSICAL slavery to a physical promised land. Christ... is the ONLY One appointed by God to lead us... from SPIRITUAL slavery... to the SPIRITUAL "Promsied Land" - Mount Zion.

May you have ears to hear and get the sense of these truths, as well, if you wish them, to hear when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

"Come! Take 'life's water'... which water is poured out FROM THE ROCK-MASS THAT IS CHRIST, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), who is the MOST HOLY One of Israel, JAH of Armies... FREE!"

The "Door" to the "Ark" [of the NEW Covenant]... which Door/Narrow Gate is Christ... stands open, dear ones. To ALL who hear when he calls:

"Come to ME... ALL you who are thirsting... and DRINK!" and

"Come to ME, ALL you who are loaded down and toiling... for MY yoke is KINDLY and MY load is light!"

We can continue to "drink" from others' cisterns... or begin to drink... from him. And we can continue under others' yokes and carrying their loads. Or... we can LISTEN... and OBEY... and take HIS yoke and HIS load. Each one's CHOICE, for no one will make one DO anything.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you ALL... and thank you, again, dear, dear 'Mom, for sharing YOUR truth with us!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Yes. Exactly. And that is what I heard from my Lord some time ago.

Not the man... the faith of the man. Of believing that which he heard. Just as Abraham believed what he heard.


Peace,
tammy

Isn't it wonderful that, as the Church's foundation and corner-stone, Jesus then chose to build his church upon the rock that was such a flawed and frail man as Peter, thus further demonstrating his love for and trust in fallible mankind?

Dear, dear Char... peace to you, dear one... and I don't know where or from whom you're getting your information, but Christ is NOT the Body's foundation, dear one. He is foundation cornerstone... which is NOT the same thing. Ask ANY architect or building contractor.

The APOSTLES, dear one, are the foundation. And maybe that's what has you confused: you are envisioning the Body (church) being build upon a foundation that is Christ, then the apostles upon that, then other upon that. That is NOT the construction, though.

The construction is:

1. Christ, the Foundation CORNERSTONE (i.e., the FIRST stone set, which DETERMINES the position of the FOUNDATION). The cornerstone is NOT the foundation itself... but the ROCK (stone) on which the foundation is SET.

"The cornerstone (or foundation stone) concept is derived from the first stone set in the construction of a masonry foundation, important since all other stones will be set in reference to this stone, thus determining the position of the entire structure." (See Wikipedia, "Cornerstone" - I removed the link because of all of the "stuff" that came with).

2. The Prophets and Apostles, the FOUNDATION... which is built... UPON the CORNERstone (rock).

3. The rest (pillars and living stones)... upon that.

Here are verses that MIGHT help you see this... if you truly wish to see the TRUTH:

"... you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ [Jesus] himself as the cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit."

But HE is building us up in that manner. WE, though, individually... are to build OUR "houses"... the individual "temples of God" that WE are... which temples will be combined to form the Greater Temple... upon the ROCK.

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

?

Again, you are in error. His CHURCH is built upon the FOUNDATION... which Foundation, like the individual stones, is built upon the ROCK (him):

“ The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock."

The FOUNDATION of a building is NOT rock, dear one. The ROCK is what you set the foundation ON... so as to stabilize the entire structure that you are going to build! Versus setting it (the foundation) on SAND... which can wash away from under it. But a rock will withstand even the worst storms.

And that rock/stone (that the builders STUMBLED over... and many stumble over STILL) is Christ:

"I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:1-4

Dear, dear Char, it is you who has been misled... and for the comfort of your flesh are allowing yourself to continue being misled. You NEED a "golden calf"... something to SEE when worshipping God (others, churches, religion, etc.) rather than doing so IN SPIRIT and in truth... which one who walks by FAITH must do! They MUST... because there IS nothing to BE seen... in this world. God's kingdom under Christ is not OF this world, dear one... and so it is upon the things in the SPIRIT realm that we are to keep our eyes and hearts on... not things "on the earth."

But is your choice, of COURSE... as to who YOU will listen to... and follow, dear one. No one here judges you for your decision or holds you in any derision, at ALL. But if you wish to take issue with others "form of worship", which you have repeatedly done, please allow that in explaining and perhaps even defending such... YOUR form of worship may be addressed. That's just the way these things work, luv. If you don't want it, you are more than welcome to tell others to leave you be. And everyone you so tell you absolutely respect that request.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Hello

Always blew me away why so much adoration given to Peter in the Church in these verses.

It is clear that there is only (1) Chief foundation cornerstone, Christ.
All the apostles, (not just peter) AND prophets are foundations, and the body of christ are living stones being built (or stacked) 'on THEM' (Ephesians 2:20,21)

Reveleation 21:14 says, "The wall of the city also had 12 foundation stones, and on them the 12 names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb."

Am I missing something here?
Why is peter given more honor than the other 11?

Thanks
Justmom

I guess it's a "mystery," dear 'Mom.

Peace to you, dear one!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Peter is not given more adoration than the other eleven apostles. No apostle is given adoration. Adoration is due only to Christ, the Lamb, the Son of God.

Do you adore all the apostles, then?

Yes, you are absolutely right, the Church stems from all the apostles through the apostolic succession, passed down through the generations of bishops by the laying on of hands, all according to the law and the prophets.

We believe in One Holy, Catholic (universal) and Apostolic Church.

Good morning Char....

To answer your question, NO I do not adore in the sense of worship ANY of the 12 apostles.

Worship belongs to the Father Jah.

I also do not ever see myself needing to kneel and pray at St. Peter's tomb. I'm sure he along with the other 11 would be saddened that man had taken THEIR FAITH IN CHRIST and how they were used by Him to this level. To the point of naming buildings calling them church's on earth after them, when they knew their rewards were in the kingdom not of this world.

You may think that all this ritual is not a " form of worship". But it is " form" in that it can be seen as in a physical sense. And we are reminded to " keep our eyes not on the things seen, but on the things unseen. For the things seen are temporary, but the things unseen are everlasting."

Peter as well as all the faithful apostles knew the day would come and it would NOT be in ths world that they would receive their promised glory.
Peter asked, " Look! We have left all things and followed you, what actually will there be for us? Our Lord said to him, Truly I say to you, In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, YOU who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." Matthew 19:27,28 Matthew 25:31-46

This is the glory Peter was promised, in the kingdom on his throne, not in ANYTHING physical,
and surely he would be appalled if he saw how many people were standing kneeled in front of his tomb praying. But these poor people who are sheep have been taught by example from their false teachers and false Christs, unfortunately with the Pope in the lead.


You have to understand why I would disagree.
My Lord has called me out of the physical form of worship and slavery of man....to follow Him as the fine shepherd , to hear and obey His voice, to worship and pray ' only' to the Father and to walk by faith, not by sight ( which is a form) To follow Truth which is Him.

Love to you always
Justmom

Perhaps you are meaning different things, dear Char (peace to you!)?

My question, though, would be, why Peter? Why not build ONE "church" upon ALL of the Apostles... and Prophets... since THEY are the "foundation"? Why just follow Peter, as Vicar... and not the entire group, as ONE?

Even more, why Peter... and not CHRIST alone? If one is TRULY following Peter, why call Peter the rock... when Petre himself called CHRIST the rock?

As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— you also, as living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through [Jesus] Christ. For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”
Now to you who believe, this stone is precious.
But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,”

and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.” 1 Peter 2:4-8


Even Paul says Christ is the rock:

"They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:3


Is it POSSIBLE that with, say, as some believe JWs have misconstrued John's words at John 1:1, others have done likewise misconstrued what Christ's words to Peter meant?

NOT trying to contend, at ALL; just trying to understand.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

What puzzles me, Shelby and justmom, is why it is not sufficient for you and anyone else who has joined in in this vein, simply to recognise that we see things differently, and be content to just disagree.

That's not enough for you. You not only want to hammer your point again and again, but, Shelby, you freely use the vilest of terms with which to express your thoughts. You knowingly lied about me, because you knew that I had NOT discerned that love was missing from the church, yet you asserted it! Then, in connection with the fact that I had resumed my active participation in my church, you said, "When you ran back, you ran back to vomit, dear one." I am now as filled with disgust at such a statement as I was when I first read it a couple of days ago. What a loathsome way of talking to someone! What a vile use of words! And you then dare to pretend that such words come from your direct conversations with Christ,who is the embodiment of Love Himself!

I have waited two days to write about this, as I experienced such revulsion at first. It is not Christ who tells you such things, Shelby.

Dear Chariklo:

I don't think that Shelby said such a thing in order to be vile toward you. (Although I certainly understand that you received it that way.) That's not like Shelby at all to do or say such a thing with that kind of intent. (I'm sure she will answer for herself, however.) More than likely she was just being matter-of-fact in that she is referring to a biblical text. That text being from the Catholic Douay-Rheims at Revelation 3:16:

"But because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth."

That being said, there are then "some" whom Christ does/will vomit out. We just have to make sure we aren't in that group of people whom Christ might vomit out.

Respectfully,

--Armand

Dear Armand, your intention is kind, but I think if you check back in that thread that you'll see that Shelby is indeed addressing me.

Further, your understanding of Christ is very very different from mine, because yours is imbibed from the Watchtower and mine from lifelong upbringing in and adherence to the Catholic Church, the One Holy Catholic (universal) Church that Christ founded. The theology I know would never ever say things like "there are some whom Christ does/will vomit out." That is Watchtower teaching, Watchtower use of language.

I think that Shelby, however good her intentions may have been at the start, has lost all sense of proportion and balance in what she says, because, although that was truly such a very disgusting thing to say to somebody, it does not stand out alone in type, though it certainly does in the extreme nature of its vocabulary.

Ummm... okaayyyy... before I address your comments to ME, dear Char (as always, peace to you!), I need to address your comments to dear Armand (peace to you, dear one!) ABOUT me:



Actually, Christ is recorded to have said it, dear one. To angel of one of the 7 congregations addressed in the Revelation:

"'Write to the angel of the church in Laodicea and say, "Here is the message of the Amen, the trustworthy, the true witness, the Principle of God's creation: 'I know about your activities: how you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were one or the other, but since you are neither hot nor cold, but only lukewarm, I will spit you out of my mouth." Revelation 3:13-16

Now I realize that we live in times of PC-ness and perhaps you are opposed to the use of the word "vomit," preferring the more PC word "spit." Did you know, however, that the word that is "spit" derived from the word "spue"... the Greek word for which is emeo, which means... wait for it... "to vomit, vomit forth, throw up"? So, whether Christ said it or dear Armand reiterated... "vomit" IS the correct word.



My intentions haven't changed, dear Char; they are the same as they were from the beginning of my assignment: to speak the truth as to and about God and Christ... to whomever I speak about them to. To share what I receive FROM Christ... openly, honestly, and without deviation... whether others hear or refrain. I cannot see anything BUT good in that, although I can see where you and some others might think differently. Now, though, because I tell YOU the truth, perhaps you feel I am no longer your friend? But that TRULY is NOT the case! Perhaps as my Lord was considered in his day in the flesh, I'm not a very "PC" person, no. There is the "right" (in some's minds) thing to say... and then there is the truth. I am not always good at "tempering" the truth so as to be "right" in others' eyes. I tend to feel... deceitful, even slimy, sometimes... when I try to do it... and so tend to stick to the truth. As a result, I am SURE that I don't always say the "right" thing.

My use of the word "vomit," howver, was in the same spirit as did Peter (if you read the entire second chapter of his second letter in the Bible you might see what I mean). I personally don't find any of the WORDING in the Bible offensive, per se, and it never dawned on me that some who considers it God's Word would, either. I mean, "it's in the Bible," right?



I cannot answer for dear 'Mom... but I am TOTALLY content, dear one! Question is... are YOU? Because if you review the discussions thus far... ALL of them... you will see that it is not we who are discontent. Nor is it we alone who is disagreeing. For example, I shared what my Lord gave me as to his Naziriteship. I did not perceive, however, where you were "content" to disagree.



My apologies, dear Char - I wasn't trying to hammer. Rather, I was trying to share the truth, in full, as I received it. You DO realize that there are others who are interested in the information, as well? I am a bit confused, if not leery, as to when to address you directly and when not to because when I once did that... agreed to disagree and leave a matter be... YOU were not content with that. Indeed, you said it would "not do," or something to that effect. I took that to mean that you WANT responses to your comments. Call me "Sheldon," what the hey...



Sigh... I might have a LOT of things wrong with me, but my memory isn't one of them. But this is EXACTLY why I stick to the truth: because folks have a "funny" way of forgetting what THEY say... or that THEY claim to be honest. I have learned that honesty is subjective with most people. They CHOOSE when to evoke it... and when not to. I don't know how to do that, dear one, not on my own. Now, when someone is TELLING me to be dishonest... but I don't KNOW that's what's going on... for example, as a WTBTS "publisher"... then, yes, I will probably lie.



Which was true, dear one. I did not lie to you. I simply didn't say so sooner... for your sake. I will admit, I didn't think you were any more ready for it when I DID say than before... but the situation called for it. Because it is the truth.



I can understand that.



Ummmm... I think that that is subjective. Some might take it as you did. Others that I have shared the same thing with have not. But then, they could see the truth in it...



He is but that doesn't stop him from speaking the TRUTH, dear one. Indeed, BECAUSE of love, we are SUPPOSED to speak truth with on another... yes? So, he told me what had occurred with you... which YOU corroborated, dear one. I didn't know; there was no way FOR me to know, except that he told me and you verified it. Now, though, you want folks to believe a different scenario. Okay, that's of no concern to ME.



I am sorry that you were so affected, dear Char, truly... but that does happen from time to time. Some here, including myself, can tell you that they've spent days in bed... or on the floor... in prayer... when the truth about them was revealed to THEM. And not necessarily by another, although that sometimes occurs (think Nathan and David... Paul and Cephas... Christ and Peter...), but by Christ himself. I have asked you... virtually BEGGED you... to go to him and ask for yourself. For some reason, you refuse to do that. So, okay, someone was directed to tell you what you had done... because YOU... REFUSE to see. Which happens with God AND Christ when one won't listen to THEM.

As for agreeing to disagree... I am MORE than happy to do so with you. I truly thought that that is what I was doing, although including support for WHY I disagree. Moving forward, then, is there a specific way you wish me TO agree to disagree? Your response would help... because you have and are confusing the HECK outta me, my dear. There just seems to be so much inconsistency... so I don't know "how" to proceed with you, except as I do with most.

Please, let me know what you would like from me, dear Char.

Again, peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellama

Chariklo, my sister,

Yes, my intention was kind, but it was also meant to be truthful. And I understand that Shelby may have been addressing you. I also understand that my understanding is very different from yours. And, yes, your are correct in that in the past I imbibed from the Watchtower and I understand that you have imbibed from the Roman Catholic Church. So we each imbibed from different fountains—I get that. At one time, too, I also imbibed from the Roman Catholic Church. Now I imbibe ONLY from the Christ. I have left off both the Roman Catholic Church and the Watchtower Society.

However, as to the “theology that [you] know” would never say the things I quoted well, your understanding, then, is not in harmony with the Roman Catholic Church’s biblical text. It is the Roman Catholic Bible from which I quoted. The Roman Catholic Bible, and what is written in it, IS part of Roman Catholic theology. Do you not know this? I mean, with all due respect, Chariklo, what is your understanding of that text which quotes Christ as saying that? That text was in the Roman Catholic Bible LONG BEFORE the Watchtower Society ever came into existence. So it is, in fact, NOT REALLY A WATCHTOWER TEACHING.

If, as you say, it is a “truly disgusting thing to say to somebody,” then that would mean that sometimes Christ says some pretty disgusting things to some people, yes?

--Armand

Chariklo, I am curious about something and want to ask you a question. If you don't mind my asking. . . .

And I don't mean this question unkindly or disrespectfully at all.

Have you ever actually sat down and simply read the Bible from cover to cover?

I ask this only because you seem to be, for lack of a better or more accurate word (no disrespect intended), "ignorant" of what is actually contained in the Bible.

Curiously and respectfully yours,

--Armand