xjwsforChrist

Children's parents in a greek primary school (Kentri village) were asked to sign this to verify that their children were prepared to take holy communion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

Not sure I see the "problem," dear ANOMOS (peace to you!). I don't read Greek so I must take your comments as an accurate translation and you say the parents were "asked" to sign... and that signing was the "verify that their children were prepared."

I mean, I can see a parent (lovingly) directing a child to (partake) because the parent truly believed the child would gain salvation. Not saying I would do so or encourage anyone else to do so - just saying I can see a parent feeling it right to do that for THEIR child.

I can also see a parent wanting to BE the one to verify that their child IS "prepared" (because the parent knows the child... and so perhaps knows their child IS ready... or is not. Perhaps not, of course, but more likely than anyone else, except the child, of course.

Now, the CHILD himself/herself should be asked, of course. Maybe in addition to the parents... maybe not. Well, actually, not asked (who ASKS that of a child??? Of ANYONE? WHY??? Is it not up the PERSON to know if they are prepared or not?). What the child should be... is PERMITTED, if they so CHOOSE... TO partake ("Stop preventing the little children from coming to me!").

IF, however, you're saying the parents are being MADE to sign a "verification"... that their children ARE "prepared" to take communion... whether they are or are not... then I join you in your indignation.

But a thought just occurred to me: is it possible that this is the OC's way of covering their hineys with the government... for giving wine to children? The parent's "verification" being their written permission FOR their child to be PERMITTED to partake, due to the use of wine (because the children are minors)? If so, THAT would make sense ("Sorry, Mr. Jones, I know little Stevie wants to take communion... and I would give it to him... but he's only 8 and someone might have a problem with that, seeing as we use real wine. The government, however, has given us a way to do this for him, but we need your permission. If you're willing to verify that he IS ready... we can proceed. Just complete this form so we have it on file, just in case the government asks.").

Unfortunately, religion's track record has made a lot of things suspect. As they should be. Also unfortunately, though, there are some who are so against anything "spiritual" that they would scream and beat their breast over someone giving an 8-year-old wine. Of course, concession could (and probably should) be made for minors (grape juice, etc.), but some are really too entrenched to make the "accommodation." That shouldn't be, though, as JAH and Christ are just not THAT "exacting." With them, it's the ATTEMPT at obedience that counts.

I hope this helps!

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Well, I cannot read greek... but if the Orthodox church is similar to the RC church (and the RC church does recognize baptism into the Orthodox church as valid baptism, preceding communion), then the children in those religions are 'prepared'... by having been baptized properly, as well as having completed whatever other rite might come before the rite of first communion. They cannot skip a step. If they have not completed all the requirements, then they would not be prepared to receive communion. Nor would they be permitted.



All that being said, lol... before I hit submit, I did find this, and there are certain steps that children seem to need to take before partaking in the Orthodox church:



http://htgocnr.org/schools/sunday_school.html




Being prepared is about following the traditions and rules of that particular religion/denomination.


Peace to you,
tammy

Hmm. Interesting that fasting is a requirement before partaking, but the original partaking (with the apostles) came at/after a feast. Even Paul spoke to the Corinthians about eating at home before coming together. Nothing about fasting that I can recall. If someone WANTS to do that... or has been told that they must... then that is between them and their Lord. But to make it a condition for others before they may have communion? It is just imposing conditions according to tradition that Christ did not impose or teach.

Peace again,
tammy

That is interesting, dear tec (mornin' and peace to you, luv!)... but not surprising. I mean, WHO among these harlots follows our dear Lord's words or example? It's the whole "666" thing. A man's "number." Not JAH's.

As for the children being prepared... I find it interesting that they believe a parent can "verify" that a child has fasted. No one can verify such a thing except the person themselves. Why? Because the parent MIGHT not know if the child "sneaked" some food/candy, etc., that the parent was not aware of. The parent can ask, of course, but so can the priest. So, having someone else verify what one has or has not done... with regard to God/Christ... is not only silly... but dangerous.

Because what if the child DID sneak something? Is not the child AND the parent "verifying"... "before God" (at least, in the eyes of these folks, because the priest is the "mediator" - eye roll - here?)... that the child IS "prepared"?

Dangerous stuff, this.

Ah, well... s'what happens when you have men as your mediator. Making all kinds of silly rules, requirements... judgments...

Peace, luv, and thanks for the additional information!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Good morning and peace.....

Great comments and I noticed as well that the more often your desire to partake, the more strict the fasting and requirements are. Sorta like a deterrent to partake of the " daily sacrifice" for our sins.
And if you have a medical condition that limits your ability to fast the guidelines are then determined by " The spiritual FATHER".... Really????
There's the whole " do not be calling ANYONE your father on earth! You have ONE who is Jah."


But ooh well, man....but I don't see how it's worse than the WTBS who shuts up the kingdom to EVERYBODY regardless of their desire to fast and prepare themselves.

Love and peace to you all...Kim

What does the public school have to do with all this? I hate it! A coule of idiots want to force their stupid religion to the small children. Do you think any of them (with the exception of a few) would partake if the school teachers didn't arrange this s**t? Why should the school distrubute such propaganda? Isn't there a church and a priest to do it? If I had my child there, and was a 'good' JW, I would sue them unless they allowed me to distribute invitations to the memorial and demand the parents to sign that the children are fit to attend the memorial, aka they would wear a suit and a tie, or more probably an invitation to the Memorial of the Great Spagetti Monster's only begotten 100% pure Semolina Tentacle! LOL! LOL!

Hard (for me) to comment on what the school system is like over there, and without being able to read the letter, there is no way for us to tell if this is a public school or not.

Here, the Roman Catholic schools have such things as the above. But a person puts their child in the RC school fully aware of this... and/or are already Catholic. So there is no 'forcing' by the school... and parents are teaching this with the RC church, as it is. There are also Christian schools, and some protestant schools too. These are separate school boards, from the public schools, although, where I live, there seems to be one public school for every catholic school.

Public schools here do not have communion or anything like that in them.

Peace,
tammy

"Prepared" in this case probably means the candidate for communion has completed the necessary instruction to understand the basics of the faith and the significance of communion. The intent is that they are not to eat the bread of life unworthily, without understanding what they are doing and why.

With regard to wine, it is not necessary to partake of both forms of the Eucharist. The full "body and blood, soul and divinity" is contained in each part. Children may have a sip of the wine where local regulations and practices allow it (in many places there is a legal exemption for religious rites), and anybody who feels the least bit ill is urged to not share the cup for health reasons (our pastor makes that point in his sermon every year when flu season approaches). Some churches dip each piece of bread into the wine to address the hygiene question (though I do not know if Greek Orthodox churches are among these).

It is a public school. It is not the duty of the schoolteacher or the principal of the school to deal such matters. Possibly a theologist if not the local priest himself. IMO when the regime that rules us falls, the new government should kick out those teachers.

anybody who feels the least bit ill is urged to not share the cup for health reasons

This is confusing to me, dear GLT (mornin' and peace to you, luv!). I mean, if the one drinking TRULY believes that the wine represents the blood of Christ... which blood can heal... EVERY malady... what is there to fear? On the other hand, if one drinks but does so fearfully (of "catching" something)... can one say they TRULY believe they are partaking of the blood of CHRIST... versus, just some wine that "represents" that blood? And if that is the case, that they only view it as some representation (and the bread, as merely a representation)... have they TRULY "discerned" the body and the blood? And is not THAT the problem that Paul was speaking of when he wrote:

"... whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves." 1 Corinthians 11:27-29

So that one must:

1. Scrutizine THEMSELVES first... to ensure that they are clean... on the INSIDE... because, as was with the Law re partaking of the PHYSICAL Passover those who were (ceremonially) unclean on the OUTSIDE could NOT participate until they WERE clean - Numbers 19:11-22; 2 Chronicles 30:2-15) - and since the things we NOW are to observe have to do with the SPIRIT (vs. the flesh) and so it is the INSIDE that JAH sees and so we must have cleansed; and

2. Discern that the bread IS the flesh of Christ and the wine IS his blood SPIRITUALLY... and not just physical representations... and so having the properties OF his flesh (the leaves of the Tree of Life that he is, by means of which leaves the nations are CURED) and blood (the "water" of life, which "bubbles UP in one to impart everlasting life")... so that is by means of these two NOW... that we LIVE (i.e., put our SPIRIT in line to be resurrected to LIFE)?

My point being, if Christ himself was not afraid to touch those with all manner disease, because HIS flesh and blood CLEANSED such ones of their infirmities... can we say we TRULY have faith IN his flesh and blood... if WE are afraid to even touch THESE... simply because someone who "might" have an illness has touched it first? Wouldn't that be a LACK of faith IN that blood? Actually "discerning" it as nothing MORE than mere wine... rather than the blood of Christ?

But wouldn't LOVE, if not FAITH... cause us to not BE concerned? For instance, would I NOT share the cup with someone... perhaps even you... simply because I believed them to have an illness? If that's the case, what of the disciples' drinking after Lazarus (Simon, the Kanean)... who had once been a leper? Yes, he had been healed/cleansed by our dear Lord prior to... resurrected from the dead, even... but the disciples would have had to have absolute FAITH in that full healing in order to not be concerned about drinking from the same cup as him, yes? Sure, he LOOKED healed/clean... but how did they know he was FULLY cleansed, versus having something still in him, something "dormant" perhaps? Was it not their faith in Christ that TOLD them so?

But where can there be fear... if there is LOVE? Does not perfect LOVE... cast ALL fear... OUTSIDE? How can I prove to someone I love them... love Christ... if I won't even drink from the same cup supposedly containing Christ's blood... because of my FEAR? Would not my refusal TO drink with/after them actually be a demonstration of a LACK of love (for them)... as well as a lack of faith (in God and Christ)?

And, yet, what if such one DID have an infirmity? Should not... WOULD not... my faith... in CHRIST... such that when I asked him to "protect" me... AND this one... "from harm"... COVER... such that when I ASK... IN FAITH... to BE covered... cause him to ANSWER... and COVER me/the one... any others?

Surely, if faith can move a mountain... walk on water... feed the hungry... heal the sick... resurrect the dead... it can cover a little thing like germs from a sip of wine... yes? One would have to HAVE faith, though... that such things actually DID occur... CAN occur... and WILL occur, again, though... yes? And if one IS eating of the flesh and drinking of the blood "of Christ,"... isn't that what one is saying one DOES believe?

So, again, your pastor's... mmmmmmmm... "precautions"... are not only curious to me, but concerning. I mean, as your "leader" (you did refer to him as YOUR pastor)... shouldn't HE be at the FOREFRONT of "exercising" FAITH? And wouldn't NOT being concerned about such a thing be a DEMONSTRATION of that faith?

Please, dear one: consider who it is you are "following"... and why.

Because there is One sent for us to follow where doing so includes NO fear. Absolutely none. Why? Because it is borne of love and done in love... and carried out by means of love. And, again, perfect love... casts ALL fear... OUTSIDE. So, there is NO fear... INSIDE. Which is why I can share these things WITH you: love, without fear.

I hope this helps, truly!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

What about the Memorial mentioned in jwnet where for the fear of Ebola there was no bread and wine? Sacrilege!

Here we have a difference of opinion, dear Shelby!

When making the decision to share the cup or not, whose benefit comes first: one's self, or the others who will also drink of it? Should the elderly and the weak, for whom a cold or flu is a serious matter, come first or should I?

The Lord reads the hearts of all. He knows and understands those who, for sound cause, forgo tasting his blood, as an act of charity and consideration for others. That is not a rejection of His great gift; it is treating others with respect and Christian love. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

We do have differing views here, dear GLT (peace, luv!). I think what I would do (because I would want another to do for me)... is show them my FAITH... IN Christ... and in his blood... by sharing the cup with them... and not worrying about my flesh. Because my flesh, after all, is of no use anyway. Right? And so I wouldn't worry about IT.

What I WOULD worry about is what my Lord thought of me... NOT having faith in him... and in his blood... such that I KNEW he would protect me from illness... or, if that wasn't his will... that he would RESURRECT me at the appointed time... because of the great LOVE I showed. For HIM... and for my "friend" who I shared the cup WITH.

Because surely, my choosing to drink WITH my "friend"... and if we share the same faith, SURELY we are friends, indeed BROTHERS... even at risk to my own life... would be in FULFILLMENT of my dear Lord's words that:

No one has GREATER love than THIS, that he should GIVE his life... IN BEHALF of his friends."

My love, therefore, FOR my "friend," would be MANIFEST in my choosing to risk MY life, indeed GIVE it... if it meant sharing the SAME cup of our dear Lord's blood.

But again, MY faith says I wouldn't HAVE to give my life in such a case... because that very same blood... GOD's blood... HOLY SPIRIT... is in ME... and is what keeps my MORTAL body alive. Just as Paul wrote:

"However, YOU are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in YOU. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this one does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in union with YOU, the body indeed is dead on account of sin, but the spirit is life on account of righteousness. If, now, the spirit of him that raised up [Jesus] from the dead dwells in YOU, he that raised up Christ [Jesus] from the dead will also make YOUR mortal bodies alive THROUGH HIS SPIRIT THAT RESIDES IN YOU." Romans 8:9, 10

I mean, that's what gave Peter, John, Paul, et al, the COURAGE... to heal/resurrect. Love and faith. And not being concerned with things like germs... or even touching a dead body (i.e., Eutychus, etc.).

But that's me and MY faith, dear one. And yes, i would it is different from many's, including maybe yours. It leaves me WITH great hope, though, and WITHOUT fear (especially of showing love). Which is the best kind of faith, IMHO.

But please know that I understand if that doesn't work for you/others, truly. I, too, was once there, even avoiding asking for the gift of healing because of the fear of my flesh. Praise JAH... my dear Lord has since taught me a surpassing way! May he teach you, too, should you ever wish him to!

Peace to you, dear one!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar