xjwsforChrist

AGUEST SAID


Indeed, dear LeAnn (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one)! Hence:

"TASTE and see that JaHVeH is GOOD!" Psalm 34:8

Partaking of the flesh and blood of the image of God, that of the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), Whom He sent to represent Him, is the beginning of how we can DO this! It is a very important step toward allowing our OTHER senses, both spiritual AND physical, to "realize" him! In doing this one small thing we are showing ourselves "faithful in what is LEAST." Because it doesn't require any sacrifice on our part, save a very small commitment of time (less than a minute, if one keeps one's "thanks" to just that, the provision of the flesh and blood, which is really all that's needed!).

If we don't even have faith that such IS the flesh and blood of Christ... OR that by means of eating and drinking these WE can LIVE; however, then we're missing a MAJOR aspect of the Truth... "that leads to everlasting life". Because if we don't BELIEVE that the first grants us life (as "leaves" from the TREE of Life, which leaves are for the CURING of the nations, including Israel... and that the second represents the blood that washes away/cleanses our sins so that we CAN stand clean before God, versus receive condemnation... then we can't boast of having faith "to the preserving of [our] souls alive"!! To the contrary, we haven't even BEGUN to understand what the "faith" that we NEED... in Whom, in what, and WHY... truly IS!

Because it those "leaves" and that "blood" that preserves our SPIRIT alive... even if our flesh dies! JaHVeH is a God of the LIVING (which includes those whose fleshly vessels but not their everlasting spirits have died)... not of the dead!

There is a REASON, then, for all of the invitations to "Come!".. and why the WTBTS has tried to stymie those invitations, and one in particular!... for most of its members for decades: to shut UP the kingdom of the heavens before men!

It starts with us, dear ones... with us HEEDING the call... starting with an act of faith as to a LEAST thing!

We can TASTE, then, the image of God, the flesh and blood of the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... so as to taste God Himself... and see, THROUGH that One that the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies... IS good!

So, then, "Come! ALL you who are wishing and thirsting... come and TAKE 'life's water'... FREE!" SHOW your "thirst"... by obeying a "least" command and "KEEP DOING THIS"... and so REMEMBERING the great sacrifice made for ALL manking, indeed... the WORLD! Because "as often as you do this, you declare the death (and thus, outpouring of his BLOOD) of our dear Lord"... until he returns!

May all those with ears, hear... and get the sense of these wonderful truths!

Again, peace to you all!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ, the One by means of whose flesh and blood she lives... indeed, the WORLD may live,

SA

Quote:

CHARIKLO SAID

Tammy, I was just in the process of answering this thread in the form of its counterpart over on that other forum, when I foresaw in my mind's eye exactly how my words would be taken apart and shredded. I have to confess, I am just not prepared for that at the minute, but I'm. Going to put my thoughts out here, and we'll see if they do make sense!

This is what I've just written but not posted:

There is a very good and interesting book called "Jesus: self portrait by God" by Enda Lyons.

Conveniently, it is even a Google book.

Through Jesus, we can see the ideal of what we could be. Not only that, but we can see God in human form.

Through studying him, his words and actions as shown in the New Testament, we can get a clear idea of what God wants. I do not see a God obsessed with organisation and structure. That is a bizarre twist insisted on by the Watchtower. Jesus shows us a God of mercy, of pity, who heals and cares especially for the poor and weak. Overwhelmingly, he shows us a God of love. Through him, we can learn about God.

True, we can also learn something about God through the written history and records of the prophets etc, but there is a strong human filter. Some of the Old Testament is much more the history of a nation and its laws than anything else. Jesus, on the other hand, expressly and directly tells us that God knows and counts even the individual hairs on our heads and cares even when a sparrow drops.

Jesus makes it clear that he came to supersede the old laws, not to quarrel with them but here...and I'm moving into 21st century lingo...he has kind of updated what we can know of God from the human interpretation the earlier books of the Bible give us.

It's Jesus with whom we can talk and who holds our hand and can comfort us when we're sad. As well, he has been here before us, and was prepared to suffer even death on a cross on our behalf. The Bible might give us a road map. Jesus is the Way.

LEANN SAID

Love and peace to you also dear Shelby,

Indeed taste him and see that he is good, for isnt it the opposite of the 'fruit' that Adam and Eve did eat. For one was the "fruit" of the tree of knowlege and good and bad... but the other was the "TREE" (leaves) of life.

Yes they have to know they are hungry and thirsty.. that is why he called those who were tired, hungry, thirsty and loaded down... happy, for happy are those aware of their spiritual need.

thank you for weaving in the scriptures to illustrate what I meant.

with his love
LeAnn

AGUEST SAID



YES! Not only updated, dear LeAnn (peace to you!), but literally MANIFESTED it for us - put [the spirit of God] IN the flesh - so that man could SEE (at that time) it/Him! He was NOT God... but an instrument of God's spirit... by allowing his own body to be used. Just as WE can: be "instruments" of God's will and spirit!

But then he said "Happy are those who do NOT see... and yet BELIEVE!"

So it is we, who have NOT seen him in the flesh... and yet SEE him (in the spirit!)... and so believe... who will be counted among those he calls to be even "happier"! Because many who DID see him in the flesh did NOT believe!

Thank you for your comments, dear one, and all of you for these wonderful thought! Peace to you all!

Your servant and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

LEANN SAID

Shelby..

I dont think I said that quote. but I understand what you are saying.

Love
LeAnn

CHARIKLO SAID

Yes, I said it actually, but it's Ok, LeAnn, and thanks!

AGUEST SAID

Oh, shoot, dear LeAnn... I saw that and meant to address dear Char (the greatest of love and peace to you, both!)... but saw your post/name last and, well, the "lightening-fingers" just took off and... and... and...

Sorry, dear Char... and thank YOU, dear LeAnn!

Again, peace to you, both!

YSSFS of Christ,

SA

CHARIKLO SAID

No need to apologise, Shelby. It is all fine and it has given me an opportunity to drop a line to LeAnn to say hi!

Nothing was necessary, but it is all very good, and who said what and whatever contributes to this thread only serves to enrich it in whatever way!

Love and peace to you all.

PSACRAMENTO SAID



When Paul spoke deeply, and more often than any other apostle, about the nature of Christ, he did so to help us understand that nature.
When Paul said that Jahesuha was the exact form of God, that in Christ the fullness of God dwelt, he was making it clear that anyone that wanted to "see" God had/has that chance now, something that had never been so before.
Christ was indeed "God in the flesh".
The JW's confuse this to mean "The Father in the flesh" because, for them, God= The father (Jehovah).
God is really just the name of the "species" that is God.
Anything begotten of God is God of course, just as anything begotten of man is man.
If Christ was man by virtue of his human "begotting" then He was God by virtue of his being begotten of God.

I know we are getting into the trinity doctrine here, but lest leave that for now, it tends to cause more confusion than anything else.

The GOJ takes what Paul wrote and makes it clear: Christ is the Word of God incarnate, Christ is God in the flesh, anyone that wishes to "see/hear./touch/taste and smell" God, they can do so in Christ.

AGUEST SAID

I totally get... and agree... with what you say, dear P (the greatest of love and peace to you!), even as to the species; however, when the title "God" comes into play, I think most are referring (although they may not be aware of it) to the MOST Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, who is the MOST High... ALL Mighty... god... versus the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA, the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah)... His Son... whom they know as "Jesus".

In that light, we really need to ALLOW ourselves to grasp that there is no "trinity," that such a thing arises from the multi-faced/faceted/rulerships of the gods of the nations. That Son, JAHESHUA, IS the [Holy] Spirit, the One glorified by the MOST Holy God, JAH... and so, again, there is only two.

The confusion comes in when man not only attempted to capitalized various words based on his OWN understanding, but because of the flaws IN that understanding as a result of not going to the One about whom such things speak (or God THROUGH that One). Such men were void of holy spirit themselves (most were PAID scribes, versus learned slaves who was put to task copying the writings).

Indeed, no TRUE member of our dear Lord's Body would have undertaken such a task... because such would KNOW... from HIM... that "searching the scriptures" was/is of no real value - that the ONLY way to know the TRUTH... was/is to get it FROM the Truth... which is done by means of the anointing. They would have, then, relied on that anointing... at least after having read John's first letter... if not having been so directed by our dear Lord himself.

UNFORTUNATELY... many, including some of the Body, yet... walk by SIGHT and not by FAITH (in the One speaking!). They need to "SEE it in writing," for it to be so. If you recall, even our Lord had show some what was "written," and even after some still check the scriptures to see if what Paul and others were now saying (as to our Lord having come and the things he said and did) was accurate. Because of this, some began to follow the men who brought the message to them... rather than doing what such men... and the scriptures... told them: seek, grab a hold of, and LISTEN to the man who was a Jew, Shiloh, the Messiah.

It really is this inability to LET GO of the written things that keeps those who claim to belong to Christ but still hold on the to the writings... that keeps such writings from being written... ON THEIR HEARTS. Paul mentioned this:

"Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

What Paul is SAYING is that if we KEEP looking at the written Law... we CANNOT see Christ (and thus, not see God)! Why? Because the written comes with a "glory" that causes a VEIL to come upon the HEART. IF, however, we turn AWAY from the written... and TO the One who fulfilled it, who MADE it "amen"... and replaced it... with HIS glory... THEN the "good news" ABOUT that One... will shine through!

ANYONE who ascribes ANY credence to PAUL... and doesn't get what he's saying here, doesn't "know" Paul. Paul knew that it is NOT the written word... the scriptures... "Moses, the Psalms, and the Prophets," that lead us to Christ, to the New Covenant, or to his glory, but Christ himself. HE leads us and it is only when turn AWAY from that which causes a veil to be on our hearts... the Law of decrees and condemnation... and turn TO Christ... so as to see HIS glory... that such glory can become manifested... in US.

The written compels us to look at others, while looking at ourselves. In contrast, CHRIST, compels us to look at HIM... while looking at ourselves. The written word keeps our sights on them and ohers; the LIVING Word keeps our sight... on HIM... and ourselves! Because in order to even understand the written word... we have to look at and LISTEN to him!

THIS is one of the "sacred SECRETS" Paul tried to reveal to the Corinthians. True, Paul had to learn the practical application of this himself (as we all do - because it's easier said than done) but just he strived for it, we should, too. Because of their lack of faith, however, some weren't able to grasp this as quickly as others. Some... because they took issue with or held onto their negative feelings about Paul. And so, this was one of this "hard to understand" things, for them. But the Apostles understood it and it was because of things like this that they were unable to fully reject Paul, who often wrote things of his OWN understanding, versus what he RECEIVED from our dear Lord.

The point? There really is no "trinity," dear one, because there is only two: the Father... and the Son. Who do what they do by MEANS of holy spirit. Yes, they both also use spirit [beings], but such are not HOLY spirits. Only One has that designation, the Son.

Now, you KNOW I, among many, many folks HATE to give the WTBTS ANY credence for being correct as to ANYTHING related to our Father and our dear Lord. But even false lights have SOME [real] "glow". They must, in order to attract their victims. And so, they do have this one right. Not much else, though. Indeed, very little, if anything else!

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you (all)!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

SA, who asks all to forgive her zeal as to this particular topic... but is a most important one and so evokes passion...

JUSTMOM SAID


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Now that hit the nail on the head. That was beautiful, thank you for sharing!
justmom

PSACRAMENTO SAID



Indeed.
One of the reasons I am not a fan of the Trinity doctrine is that it causes m ore confusion than it tries to clear up.
Man trying to explain the "unexplainable".
Trying to describe God to one that has never seen God is like trying to describe the color red to a person born blind.
There is no point of reference.
Paul does a good job, a valiant effort.
The issue is that Jaheshua IS the HS, He is Our Advocate and, in a certain way, the Trinity kind of says that too ( though they get a bit hung up on the whole "person" thing).

Our common language is base don points of references and, to the greek influenced writers and developers of doctrine, they had to word things in a way that would make sense to THEIR audience, an audience heavily influenced by Greek thought.

You are correct of course, for most and JW's in particular, God = The Father and to them the notion of Jaheshua being God doesn't compute because to them that means Jesus= Father.

JUSTMOM SAID





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Yes Paul and good morning

It is because even the WT who doesn't believe in the trinity versus the world in general that does, do not understand Jaheshua being at "ONE" with the father (if you've seen the son you've seen the father aspect) is that the oneness or unity is not in the body/physical it is "in spirit" that they are "one and the same". Interesting thoughts

justmom