xjwsforChrist

ANNEB SAID


Does anybody have an opinion on who/what it was (if anyone/anything) that communicated with Muhammad in that cave?
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Everything that I believe today is subject to change as I acquire knowledge, perspective, and direction. I'm on a journey and this is a journal...

AGUEST SAID

I don't have a great knowledge of Islam, dear Anne (peace to you!) as it known/practiced modernly. Can you direct me to the Quran verse... or some other reference? I am curious about the event because although the promise (to be a holy nation) was made as to Isaac (and, hence, Israel) versus Ishmael (and, hence Islam), both are Abraham's seed... and JAH promised to bless Ishmael, as well, but in a different way. If only these "brothers" could put down their differences and return as one to Abraham.

My understanding is that it will be so, though... because Abraham LOVED Ishmael, as much as he did Isaac. And as the God of Abraham and savior of his seed... the MOST Holy of Israel promised to bless the seed of BOTH of Abraham's sons.

In different ways, true, but it would be a lack of love... and unrighteousness... as to ABRAHAM... for JAH to forget Ishmael. Neither is possible, however, on the part of JAH of Armies. While Isaac was to rule, who knows but that some of Ishmael's seed proved themselves to be "Israel"... more than some of Israel themselves? We don't.

Thanks and, again, peace to you!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

SA

ANNEB SAID

Well, Wikipedia has plenty to read on the topic (good ol' Wikipedia!).

Essentially, before there was "Islam", Muhammad was in the habit of spending several weeks a year alone in a cave, praying. After one of these sessions, he returned home all upset because he had been approached by an entity shaped like a man but identifying itself as the angel Gabriel. This entity transmitted a short piece of prose to Muhammad. That was the first of several visits by the entity. He checked with a cousin who had converted to Christianity and was told by that cousin that the entity who had appeared to him was the same one who had appeared to Moses.

There's a lot more to the story (follow the links in the Wikipedia article on Islam). The long and short of it is that Muhammad dedicated himself to transmitting these messages from Allah (the one true God) and uniting the Arabic people in submission to Allah's will.

At first the story seemed false to me, but as I delve into it, Muhammad's experience is not that different from the experiences attributed to other prophets.

If anyone else is interested in Islam as a topic I would be pleased to read whatever is posted.
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Everything that I believe today is subject to change as I acquire knowledge, perspective, and direction. I'm on a journey and this is a journal...

AGUEST SAID

Most interesting, dear Anne; peace to you and thank you! I WILL look into it; for some reason, I believe there is something there. Not sure what, but I will certainly share it with you all if it turns out to be anything.

Again, thank you and peace to you!

Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

Shel

PSACRAMENTO SAID

According to Islam, it was the archangel Gabriel that communicated to Mohamed.
Muslims view themselves as worshiping the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Their understanding of God and what God wants is quite different than Christian ortodoxy of course and even from Jewish orthodoxy and they view themselves as having the correct interpretation of God's will in the Koran.

AGUEST SAID

I would like to revisit this, dear ones (peace to you, both!). I'll get back to ya'll, as it is something that's been on my mind and heart for some time, given the relationship between Isaac and Ishmael. I KNOW there are some similarities; indeed, my understanding is that there are a lot more than there are not... but the "hatred" between these two brothers has blinded their descendants.

I will return to this later.

Peace to you!
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Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

TEC SAID

I also don't know much about this, but have as much interest as the rest of you seem to have about this.

I look forward to more discussion on this.

Peace,
tammy

SOFT + GENTLE SAID

I wonder if what Mohammad experienced was similar to what the apostle Paul experienced on the road to Damascus? In the sense of a a conversion that is, one that makes a person stop in their tracks and start out on a new path that then has major consequences in the world in which they live

PSACRAMENTO SAID



Its hard to know, although Luke states that there were witnesses to what happened to Paul and I don't recall any witnesess to Mohammad's "revelation".
Some have argued that perhaps the "message" given to Mohammed was from a "false angel" but these types of arguments don't really do anyone any service.
The best way to judge the validity of any message is how it relates to the universe we live in and how God has made Himself known to Us ( accepting our limitations on all accounts of course).

BURNTHESHIPS SAID

I've know Muslims who have said the Quran isn't a true account of what Mohammed taught. It could be that what he believed is very different than what is written.

SOFT/GENTLE SAID

that certainly is a possibility BTS. I don't know enough to say anything further.

psac, yes from within a position of the Bible Mohammad's divine visitation would indeed come out as containing falshood and I have no problem with this. What my mind flitted to when I opened this thread was how similar my own conversion to Jehovahs witnesses had been and now my de conversion and subsequent attachment to the xjw movement. okay I did not see a vision at either time so I guess these experiences of my mine are not as powerful as what is reported about Paul and Mohammad in that respect. However, the strange similarites in what I have described above still tease away at my brain

NAMBO SAID


I read that Mohammed was brought up by his Christian Uncle, and I see in one of the other posts here about a Christian cousin,
A Catholic Uncle would help explain the Korans obsession with "Hell" for the book is constantly reporting the ungodly tortures their idea of God will visit on them, with the result that such horrors drive Muslims to their God from dread fear rather than deserved Love, I have received such confirmation from Muslims I work with that such is their relationship with God.

I personally believe that a portrayal of a God that would spend his time torturing humans so wickedly and for all eternity indicates the revelation to Mohammed was from an entity that wanted to slander a God of Love.

The only thing I am impressed with comes from the Hadiths where their term for the Anti-Christ, the Dajjal is reported as having a floating eye, when you look into the establishment of the "New World Order"and the back of the Dollar bill, you will see a floating eye.

In relation to the notion that Mohammads uncle was Christian, it is suprising to learn Islamic beliefs such as that it is Jesus who returns to conquer the Dajjal and his rulership, they also belive that a literal beast as in fleshly animal, will come out of the literal sea, and speak, when I showed a Muslim Revelation 13 he was quite taken aback though preferred his literal version.

TEC SAID

I think that the religion of Islam has worked in almost the same way as the religion of christianity. I think whatever Mohammed received, can be and has been twisted by some to use to their own ends.

Just as in christianity, many different sects of people read what they want into holy writings. Those of peace, see peace. Those of violence, see violence. Those of fear, see fear. I do not think that a lay person can just jump in and read the Quran and know what is symbolic, what is literal, what is considered rules that were needed for the people at the time. (indeed, I am sure that muslims disagree among themselves as to these things)

I tend to think of Mohammed as being more in line to Ishmael what Moses was to Israel.

Peace,
tammy

PSACRAMENTO SAID




All religious text as subject to interpretation, there is no way to escape that.
The issues with the Koran is that it CLAIMS to be an unbroken line from Mohamed and while there is some debate at times about certain minor parts and how to apply them now, there isn't a debate that they MUST be applied.
SHira laws are prime examples and Muslims ignoring the laws of the country they live in and enforcing them ( we had a few issues of that in my city a while back- honour killings).
They were NOT condemned by the "ruling bodies".

There is something rather "disturbing" about Islam and while there are many loving and caring muslims in the world, that there religion advocates violence worries me a great deal.

AGUEST SAID

I MUST revisit this thread later (peace to you all!). Seems some good info here, at least enough to make me more curious than ever before. I'll be bok! (SA, in her best "Awnold" voice).

Peace... and please, continue!

A slave of Christ,

SA