xjwsforChrist

SOFT + GENTLE SAID

what is the relationship? and is there any relationship to Christ, seeing as Christ is said to be THE TRUTH.

AGUEST SAID

I commented on this on JWN, dear S+G (the greatest of love and peace to you!)... and tried to explain how he, the "Light", is also the greatest source of energy (outside of JAH Himself):

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/frie ... Been-Wrong

There, the discussions originated from questions as to whether "something" could come from "nothing"... what "nothing" was... and about how Einstein's theory about matter/mass (i.e., the physical) multiplied by the "constant" (i.e., the SPEED of light squared) being "equal to" energy and vice versa is related to the Light that "came forth."

Given their equality, that energy is mass/matter times the constant... and thus, mass/matter times the constant is energy... it shouldn't be that hard to consider that perhaps the physical (mass/matter) DID originate from energy (i.e., Christ, the Light (Mark 8:12; John 1:3-5, 9[/i]) and secondary (to JAH, the primary) energy source - Revelation 21:23[/b]).

Of course, the TRUE "equation" is of something much higher than our "math". Here is a link to a post where I once tried to describe what I heard when I was granted to see the physical world come into existence:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchto ... o-Dear-NVL

While I am not sure about the spirit realm, the entire physical creation came into existence as a result of that "equation"... a language which was not of "words", per say, but which, when translated into words (and English - LOL!) mean, "Let Light come to be/Let Light come into existence". The existence meant in the void, not come to be at all, at it (the Light) existence before the "equation" was uttered. It just came "from" somewhere else INTO the void where I was.

And when that Light was granted to come to be in the void... the physical creation followed. The Light came in (to the void)... and as a result of that fantastical event, so did mass/matter/the physical universe. It looked like "dust" to me, from where I was viewing it. Before that, there was nothing in the void. Absolutely nothing. Not even dust... and so nothing to reflect light had that existed. Once the Light that is Christ came 'forth'... from the womb (of the Woman) and into the void... however, it was like it he "opened" the way for all OTHER physical matter to come in (to the void and thus "into existence" in THIS realm).

This event, the voice, which when it spoke caused a "light" to burst forth into the dark void... and the "physical universe" that resulted... is what I believe scientists refer as the "Big Bang." The voice was the impetus for the event; the Light coming into existing, punching THROUGH that thick void, if you will... was the event. And, again, "math" started it.

BTW - the Light was the size of less than a pinhead when it first "broke forth". What came AFTER it was what "grew", expanded. Came through... and out of... it.

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!
_________________
Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

QUENDI SAID

I am a mathematician and have conducted original research in the field. For me there never was a conflict between real science and a spiritual outlook. The challenge came in reconciling science with religion because religion means an interpretation of some kind leading to a restricted viewpoint whereas a spiritual outlook allows a much wider latitude.

I have been sharing a YouTube video with my friends which best illustrates why I am a mathematician (among my various callings) and how mathematics has enhanced my love for the Creator. Point your browsers here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkGeOWYO ... plpp_video

Quendi
_________________
Aut viam inveniemus aut faciemus.

Ad astra per aspera.

AGUEST SAID

Lovely... and thought provoking... video, dear Q (peace to you!). Funny (to me) how those who profess to believe in Christ can't see the connection: numbers don't lie/Christ is the Truth (John 14:6). HAS to be some correlation, if Christ is "real", right?

Which is why when I was shown the "birth" of the "Light"... that the voice I heard uttered an equation... it made absolute sense. True, it was a form of "numbers" that far surpasses our "math", as we know it now, but I have NO doubt that our math is a primitive form of the "language" that I heard spoken. NO doubt.

Thank you for sharing the video and, again, peace to you!
_________________
Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

JAMES THOMAS SAID

There are more and more experiments in quantum physics that very much seem to imply, if not down right prove, that what makes up all "matter" is at first, or fundamentally, only waves of energetic potential that have no solid existence. No solid existence until conscious observation enters the equation. At which time solid matter appears to come into being.

One could name or call the power of consciousness the Christ...the son or expression of God, that creates or gives rise to all the phenomenal world.

A problem is, is that our personal religious beliefs are based on the brains construction of words and names...the vocabulary of language that is necessary for much of cohesive thought (imagine trying to think without a language. One would instead rely on wordless feelings and emotions).

So, that said, it may not be important what you call God (be it Jesus, Buddha, Alla, etc), but rather your sensitivity to the most intimate consciousness within that gives rise to our material universe.

LEANN SAID

I'm posting on the to remind myself to come back tomorrow and comment.. have some thoughts on what you said Thomas but to write it all out on the kindle I'm using would take too long.

LEANN SAID

First, I want to say I agree that there is a link between the expression 'word' of God, and mathmatical expressions. It is on the level that is difficult to comprehend with our dominate mind but we know contains high levels of the mathmatical plane. Such as when you come up with an answer to a mathmatical equation instantly and the answer 'appears'. Not sure how else to describe it.

John you said.


"There are more and more experiments in quantum physics that very much seem to imply, if not down right prove, that what makes up all "matter" is at first, or fundamentally, only waves of energetic potential that have no solid existence. No solid existence until conscious observation enters the equation. At which time solid matter appears to come into being."

Please excuse my poor ability to describe my thoughts, I have always had a barrier to putting my thoughts to physical words. energetic potential I believe gives birth to reactions. These reactions catalyize with us, our consciousness, thoughts and existence.

We are human and as we are need time to define the every changing matter and solids to sense the things around us. Therefore they come into 'being'. When we come into contact with things that are not defined by time, our 'senses' that we use to define matter and existence fail us because there isn't a picture window to look through. We have the potential to experience them, but many are not aware of the other senses we possess that help us 'register' awareness of them. We have much more than the five senses that explore our world of mass and matter.

Please share more of your thoughts with us,.. I am very much enjoying them,

GLADIATOR SAID


JamesThomas - Wonderful to see you on this new forum. I have missed your comments and insights. I share many of your observations despite being a gladiator. Hope you are well and look forward to seeing you around.

JAMES THOMAS SAID


gladiator,

Thank you for your welcome on both the threads you commented on. You are a dear, and I am happy to see you here. I wouldn't apologize for being a gladiator, as I am sure it must help in this chaotic world. Thanks again for your kind welcomes.

LeAnn,

I feel you did very well describing, your thoughts...as least your words made sense to me...I think.

I agree with everything you said. It does appear as if we are a mixed bag. We have the five basic senses that shoot electrical signals off to the wondrous brain that then creates a representation of a "material world". The world of time, as you say.

Then there is the time-less, what may be the most profound (that from which I feel arises our roots) that the five senses can not sense. But since they are innate to us, we can experience them. Some may experience them very strongly, as in a NDE (near death experience), or perhaps as Shelby may. Others may sense them more subtly...like me, who am very dense and stupid. Nonetheless, even subtle experiences can be much deeper than the material sense of things.

Thank you LeAnn for your comment. I hope to share with you more. Please tell me if you feel we are on the same track.

LEANN SAID

James,

Yes, I feel were are definately on the same track. I agree we are talking about something innate. Our awareness of it(and the strength of how we experience it) is dependant of several factors many that I do not fully understand. The way our mind reacts to them is much more rooted than even our 'external' senses.

I believe that at one time, our minds were not to be left brain dominate. It has a terrible habit of supressing and eliminating what our right side sees and hears, because it follows a 'literal' path of the five senses. Logic and reason, right and wrong, now rule the mind, and many times silence what we were born to hear, what many people in fact consider insanity.

I would like to hear more of your thoughts about what these senses are, and how we experience them.

AGUEST SAID

Quote:
At which time solid matter appears to come into being.


YES!!! Appears to come into being... because they are now perceived by our physical senses! Thank you, dear JT (peace to you, dear one!) for that! This is one of the things I have come to learn as to the "differences" between that which is physical and that which is spiritual... and how it is the PHYSICAL that is limiting,

... truly exists! But only if we ALLOW it to do so. For many, then, if it can't be perceived by at least one of the physical senses they do not ALLOW the existence! But that is not the TRUTH: there is MORE, much more, beyond what our empirical physical senses can perceive... and what it CAN perceive is really only an appearance of being.




YES! Which is why religion is a part of that limitation/restriction! It does not ALLOW for that which surpasses the physical senses... even though it pretends that it does! It speaks of such things, even as "realities"... but then denies the accessibility of such while yet in the [physical] flesh. Well, "christian" religion, anyway. There are others that do so allow, but often by means of enhancers, such as plant extracts, drugs, meditation, etc.




I understand what you mean here; however, language is often a barrier, too, particularly when it is different from what is familiar. Anyone here ever seen the movie "Babel" (starring Brad Pitt and Gwyneth Paltrow - I LOVED that movie and it's message!). Math is a language, too, just as the "equation" I heard is a language (and I promise you, I could not have understood its translation to MY language on my own).

Language, then, can be a blessing and a curse, depending on whether or not one "speaks" the particular language. Since many [xtian] religionists don't "speak math"... they don't understand it's truth. Even more, many who don't understand a language tend not to trust those who do. Language, then, can be just as divisive as cohesive.

So, that said, it may not be important what you call God (be it Jesus, Buddha, Alla, etc), but rather your sensitivity to the most intimate consciousness within that gives rise to our material universe.

I think one has to start there, with a sensitivity to the most intimate consciousness within, etc. Which is a journey, of sorts. As one moves closer to the SOURCE of that consciousness, however, so that one becomes even MORE intimate WITH that intimate consciousness... so that at some point they become ONE with "it"... and one discerns, perceives, learns, and comes to KNOW that "it" (He) DOES have a name... one simply cannot dismiss it or use just any old other name as, say, a kind of placeholder. It would be like me referring to, say, my father, NOT as "Dad"... but, say, "Bill"... when Bill is not only not his name but not even close (it was Lee).

I could say, "Yeah, I know your name is 'Lee,' Dad, but others don't, so I'm gonna call you 'Bill'. 'Cause that's what some of them call you. Others call you 'Mike', a few call you 'Jim'... and one small group calls you 'Harry.' So, since none of them know your name, I'm not going to use it because I don't want to make THEM feel uncomfortable."

Seems to me like I'm more concerned about "them"... and how they may or may not feel about dear Dad's name... than I am about how dear Dad feels about it. I know dear Dad, though; I don't know them. I'm more concerned with Dad's feelings on the matter, then.

BUT... I am so glad we can have this particular discussion without being called, I dunno "moonies" or something. Or being thought "flighty" or "whimsical." I cannot WAIT for science to make the connection, to get the reality of what some refer to a metaphysical, which is sort of between, I think (I could be wrong). If they can at least validate that, then perhaps they (and so all mankind) can move forward... to considering what at the total opposite pole of physical... yet exists.

Okay, enough rambling - LOLOL! Again, thank you for broaching this topic and I look forward to more (from you, too, dear LeAnn and Glad - thanks for your comments, as well!)

Peace to you all!
_________________
Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

JAMES THOMAS SAID

Shelby,

Yes we agree. I was trying to say that language is indeed a barrier, because it was solely constructed to attempt to explain our material senses.....and it often doesn't do a very good job at that (unless you are a rare and gifted poet...which 99.99% of us are not), let alone be useful to describe the nonmaterial.

Perhaps this is why many scientists and especially theoretical physicists often use the language of mathematics, because for them it reaches beyond normal language.

LeAnn,

I'm hopping that if there is actually anything significant to happen in the last days of 2012, that it is a beginning of the matriarchal/right-brain awakening on a global scale. I don't feel this shift will happen over night. It may take many, many years.

That said, I feel that our core is pure/loving consciousness. so when we exit here, we go back to it immediately. And for those very sensitive ones, they experience it now, even before material death.

AGUEST SAID




One word for that statement, dear JT (again, peace to you!): sublime. Funny, isn't it, though, that the word "sublime" isn't considered to be connected to the word "subliminal"? I would disagree, however, and the scholars and experts be danged: there is a connection between the two.

Even so, thank you for that comment.

Again, peace to you!
_________________
Paz a todos!

Su sirviente, compañera de estudios, y un esclava de Cristo,

SA

SOFT + GENTLE SAID

thanks all for expanding this subject. was just checking out those links, shelby, need to give them more time.

I also have been looking at a little mathematical language and not being familiar with it I have to rely on what others make of it. Our own language has huge socially constructed elements and this makes understanding quite subjective but it is also remarkable that what we come back to again and again - what the spiritually enlightened ones tell us - resounds across time whatever the language.

On the other hand the scientific method itself produces huge skepticism. according to wiki there are different types of skepticism. i wonder which type xjws who become atheists and agnostics settle for eventually and which they find the most life enhancing and motivating. My thread on JWN produced some fruitful stuff from atheists (and agnostics) who seem quite motivated by their journey away from belief in God. This is not to suggest that a skeptical outlook is better than belief but to explore what works for xjws in the long term after their initial skepticism regarding wt ideas on God whether they live a more faith enhancing life or not.

please excuse my labels as I don't mean to suggest that there are definitive camps that people fall into which of course never happens in real life.

AGUEST SAID



Sounds like a book topic, dear S+G (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!). You an author... or have aspirations along those lines... by any chance? I hope so as I'd love to read your conclusions. Anyone's conclusions, actually, on the matter as I WOULD like to know what makes those who lose all faith "tick".

I mean, for me (and I think I will ask the question on the board at some point - maybe today, maybe not), I just can't wrap my head around someone saying "I believed in God while I was a JW/Mormom/Catholic/Baptist/what have you... but now that I know they're fake, I don't believe in GOD any longer." That just doesn't make sense to me, truly. I mean, it would make sense if such a one said, "I believed in the WTBTS/Mormonism/Catholicism, etc., but now that I know they're fake I don't believe in THEM any longer." I can totally understand THAT.

But I have to question whether such ever believed in GOD in the first place. Their particular religion's VERSION of "God", yes. Their own personal paradigm of God even, perhaps. But the Most Holy One of Israel (which is the God of Abraham, et al. and so the God of "christians")? I cannot see it, although I truly have tried... because I DO want to understand (and so, again, might just ask the board).

Because my understanding is that one's faith in the TRUE God cannot BE based on a religion or even a personal paradigm. The Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, IS... no matter WHAT any of us think or believe. Our lack of belief does not negate His existence any more than our personal belief creates it.

So, I think that once one really humbles himself/herself to consider just what it TRULY "was" that they "believed in", one might come to a different conclusion than "I no longer believe in God." I think most will come to the conclusion that "I never believed in God to begin with, but only in what some others TOLD me to believe [in], which turned out not to be God."

Or... maybe not. Again, I may need to ask those who've experienced this to get a proper sense of what actually occurs. But I, too, once believed in the "God" of the WTBTS: "Jehovah." I did so correspondingly, though, with [the True] God, whoever that might ultimately turn out to be, even if NOT the god of the WTBTS.

Yep, even if it turned out to be the FSM (praise JAH, it didn't! LOL!). Because I understood the admonition to NOT put my trust in earthling man... exactly for the reasons stated: he is no different, better, spiritual, worthy, deserving, or approved by God... than I am. We are ALL sinners, no matter what we want others to believe about us. And so he, earthling man... whether a WTBTS GB member, the Pope, the Dalai Lama, Mother Teresa, Barack Obama, Queen Liz, my own mother/father/husband... what have you... cannot save ME.

As the song says, "He can't even run his own life; I'll be damned if he'll run mine!"

True, some of these may be prosperous, affluent, etc., but they can't hold off death, not a one of them. And THAT is the promise held out - to beat death, to live forever. Is it possible? I think so, but I could be wrong. Even so, why would I want to discard the possibility... if it cost me nothing but to listen to a voice that tells me the truth... and tells me to love even my enemy? If that's all the voice wants from me... what have I to lose? Shouldn't that be the case... truth and loving even one's enemies... anyway?

My apologies for the ramblings, dear ones. Just some thoughts swirling 'round in my head and heart this morning. Had a thought-provoking weekend, on many levels, and this is probably just a residual "dump." Please forgive, overlook, ignore, disregard, etc., if it's not your cup of tea this fine morning.

As always, peace to you all!

Servant to the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... as well as those who "do good" to such ones, as you all here have done and do... and a slave of Christ,

SA