xjwsforChrist

This is a very interesting conversation. It highlights something that I struggle with when people ask me if I am religious or a christian. I never find it easy to give a simple answer. I'd like to hear how others respond please, because I can identify with the issues that Shelby mentions can occur.

Loz x

_________________
"This is my son. LISTEN to Him!"

But that would be to "christians," though, right, dear Tec (peace, luv!)? 'Cause there are many religions, including those that are non-christian. "Babylon," however, whom those who belong to Christ are told to get OUT of, can only be a "city" in which those who claim to be joined to Christ "reside/dwell" in. Because she's a harlot/adulteress and commits fornication and bears children... daughters... who are also harlots. Only those who are christian claim to be wed to/in union with Christ and so it is only those who can BE such adulteresses. As James addressed such:

"You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God. Or do you think Scripture says without reason that he jealously longs for the spirit he has caused to dwell in us?" James 4:3-5

Just as it was prophesied as to fleshly Israel by Hosea (those who are Israel by means of Abraham's blood, through Isaac), so it is with those who constitute spiritual Israel (those who are Israel by Abraham's blood, though Isaac, AND/OR by means of God's blood, holy spirit, through Christ). Hosea 2:1-22

I hope this helps and, again, peace to you all!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

just my thoughts the problem with religion is always with authority and the false beliefs powerful/charismatic men forces on those who look into them for guidance. but we should be careful of being an elitist and avoiding those who are a member of a religious organization, ultimately they are just victims. Instead we should strive to help them to build up their faith in any way we can, but being very careful not to be a stumbling block on their journey. even up to the end there will be true follower of Christ among these churches, as well as many deceivers - who is who may only be known on the day of judgement:

28“And he said to them, ‘An enemy has done this!’ The slaves said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go and gather them up?’ 29“But he said, ‘No; for while you are gathering up the tares, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30‘Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.”’” - Matthew 13

Nice video! I hate religion too!

I agree, dear Kassad (peace to you!), to extent such avoidance is for the purpose of BEING elitist. If it's to avoid "bad association," however, I'm not so sure. Folks keep trying to say "no one knows," but I don't know how one can claim to be a christian and say that... as Christ, the One such ones claim to FOLLOW... SAID... we WOULD know them. By their "fruits."

So, I'm not sure how we can keep wanting to have it both ways... yet claim to follow Christ... who exposed the hypocrites of his say... and taught his followers to expose those they encountered (think, John the Baptizer, Stephen, Paul, Peter, John...).



Some, yes. Many, absolutely. Most? No. All... not by any stretch. They... as we, at one time... are simply following our own CHOICES.



IF we can, dear one... but it is not us who choose. That is between them and Christ. WE... are just instruments to be used IF they are "wishing" and "thirsting". And I get that we should... do... want MANY to get it, but the reality, the TRUTH, is that, as Christ said, only a few will. Hard as that reality might be to accept, it IS the reality. That shouldn't undermine our HOPE (that there might be many)... because we don't know WHO JAH will show mercy upon. Our HOPE is that it is shown upon ALL. But we have the example of Abraham... and Sodom/Gomorrah... to help us see that perhaps that might NOT be the case. Indeed, it most likely isn't.



If we stumble one, do we really think Christ would leave them thrown down, one who belongs to him? The caution is to us NOT to be such... for OUR own sakes, not theirs, luv. Even so, we are not the ones setting out stumbling blocks (not that you are saying we are, I don't mean that, not at all!); WE set out CHRIST, who THEY make a stumbling block. They literally push folks right over him... so that they fall! How many now reject Christ... and thus God... because of religion? It is not about the masses that flock TO religion, dear one... but the few who turn AWAY from God... BECAUSE of religion.



I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that, luv. Because the "field" in which the wheat and the weeds grow (together) is not churches... but the world. And Christ asked his Father to NOT take the men given him out of the world. So, here we are. We are not, however, to be a PART of the world while we're in it, yes? And while the wheat and the weeds do look alike WHILE THEY GROW... come the harvest, they do NOT. Not at all. Which is how the spirits will be able to TELL the one from the other.

I am not trying to discourage you, dear one, but to WAKE YOU UP! Because it is the "soothing" words of lies, half-truths and UNrealities... that "rock" up to sleep! If we cannot hear/receive truth, we WILL shut our ears. And the only "songs" we'll hear then... are lullabyes.

Truth is not always pretty, dear one... but it is always truth.

I hope this helps.

Again, peace to you!

YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Yes, absolutely... and I was speaking as to that (christian) pov; not as to other world religions being part of babylon. One has to first be promised to one (a wife)... in order to become an adulteress.

Thanks for making that point clear.

Peace,
tammy

Hey Shelby, you are right about this, I was looking into it further and it turns out Jesus explained it later on the chapter:

And He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one;

For some reason, my interpretation of that passage before was always referring to all "Christian" churches, I guessed I picked it up on the WBTS interpretation but in their version it was referring to their own group... (!) Thanks for pointing that out.

Winks at dear 'Mom and dear Kassad (peace to you both!)

A slave of Christ,

Shellamar

When people ask me I say I am a Christian.
I KNOW what it means TO ME.
What it means to others is of no concern of mine.

That it may associate myself with people that have given Christ a bad name means very little to me.
I am Portuguese by birth and my people do NOT have a clean history.
I have a friend who is a Serbian and why should he claim to be something else just because of what some Serbians did in the Balkans?
Some say Jews should be ashamed for what they did to Christ, but we that KNOW, know better than to judge an individual based on things he did NOT do or does NOT believe, simply because he identifies himself with a group that may have a bad history.

I am not a fan of organized religion.
That is an understatement, I hate it with a passion.

I am a Christian because Christ is my Lord and Saviour and in HIM and with His love and grace, I have found God.
I am a Christian because I believe that Christ lived and was crucified and was resurrected and will come again.

I do NOT belong to any church or group, I belong to HIM, to my Beloved Lord.
I am a Christian and that is what it means to me.

I can speak for no one else, nor would I want to.

A sincere "thumbs up" to you, my dear brother (peace, luv!) - LOLOL!



I don't think he should, dear one, anymore than I think I should refrain from calling myself a christian just because of what some others who call(ed) themselves such do/have done. And no one is without sin, including us here (hence, among those WE associate with). I am of the mind, however, that when it comes to associating with others, it depends on the PURPOSE of that association. Even if fleecing God's sheep is not OUR intent... associating with those whose intent it IS... can lead US to be part of something that brings reproach on God, yes? Not just from man... but from spirit beings, as well. Yes? Hence, we are given such exhortations as "QUIT touching [the] unclean thing," and "Get OUT of her... MY people!", yes? Which suggestst that not ALL association is "good" association... yes? The thing is discerning which is... and which is not.

Praise JAH, we have a Helper... the Spirit of TRUTH... Christ, himself... to guide us!



Absolutely! To blame an individual Jew for the "sins" of his ancestors is silly! Christ came in the form of Jew! To blame ALL Jews, then, would be to blame him, as well, yes? So, no, we cannot do that. What, though, of the Jew who, say, says he WOULD [have] kill(ed) Christ, too? Or the "christian" who calls for the killing of Jews? Or the GROUP of Jews/christians who say so/call for such?

I mean, I don't think it even has to be that drastic. For me, ANY group that thinks it's okay to mislead others, lie to them, rob them of their wealth (what little that might be), put them under ANY kind of compulsory slavery, harms them mentally/emotionally/physically/spiritually... or condones/ignores/hides the conduct of those who do... or worse... all in the name of or under the guise of worshipping God/following Christ... is a group I personally would have to avoid association with! Not that I would avoid association with its individual members for OTHER purposes, perhaps not. I have NO problem hanging out at the employee picnic, etc. LOLOL!

But to associate with them on the common ground that FOMENTS... ANY of this... even if their WORDS say they don't (foment/condone/approve, etc.)... I have to reject. Why? Because, by such association I AM "sharing" with them. Even if I don't want to admit that. The only way I COULD associate with them... is for the purpose of trying to help them see where such is WRONG... and totally "against" God, particularly if that God is the MOST Holy One of Israel (JAH of Armies)... which it would most like be if the One they claim to FOLLOW, BELONG to, LISTEN to... and LEARN from... is Christ. Because he is the SON of God, His image and representative... and so anything one is doing as to HIM, one is doing as to HIS Father and God. That they might call him "Jesus" is no matter. If they are referring to CHRIST, then they are referring to the Son of God.



And you have not hidden that truth, dear one, so I "feel" you!



And I hear you, here!



And here!



If you belong to Christ, dear one, then you DO belong to a group: the BODY of Christ, which is his Bride, NEW Jerusalem, the beloved "city" of DOUBLE peace! And, as such, HIS "church"... the congregation (of the Firstborn, which is why he is CALLED "the Congregator" - because HE gathers/congregates those who belong to him)... which "building"... the "temple" of God... is made up of PEOPLE... not sticks/stone... and being built by HIM... not by hands. Hence, you ARE the church, luv. You/we don't "go" TO a church - we ARE the church... and so we, the Church... GO... to Christ. And he... comes to us!

Now, I realize that for YOU this might be semantics. But sometimes these truths go beyond US... to those who are... mmmmmm... observing... the "theatrical spectacle" that we are. In which light, accuracy is very important, if not critical. And so "semantics" really aren't in play.



And I hear you here, as well, dear one. Truly!



You never have, dear one, but have only shared YOUR truth. And all of us here hear... and accept that. I think you know that. You don't have to prove anything to ANYONE here, luv. Your "fruits" have always shown us who and what you are. Hence, I and others call you brother... and do so without ANY reservation.

As always, peace to you... and to your dear family!

YOUR servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

Shel

Yes, I have to repeat this for emphasis from me as well, Paul!



Much peace and love to you,

tammy

I appreciate you as well PaulS , thank you!

Love to you Justmom

Thanks for the kind words Ladies.

Truly.

I do understand that many issues we have and should have, with religion.
Man has taken it and made it something unclean and has used it to justify horrific things.
But the same thing can be said of almost everything.
Truly, what man touches, he contaminates.
Especially when power is to be had.
The moment a religion becomes "organized" ie: Hierarchy and man's goals put before God's, then it has become all that God despises.
While I don't blame religion ( that is like blaming an ideology when people pervert it's goals for their own selfish ends), I do blame people that are part of an organized religion and do nothing to fix what they KNOW to be wrong.

I hear what you are saying also Paul.

Unfortunately, religion cannot BE fixed, and certainly not by man. Man should have at least proven that to himself, lol. "You cannot pour new wine into old wineskins", as our Lord said. He calls His people OUT of her... and TO Him. Not to be arbitrary... but tolead them to Life (as He is the Life and Truth); and to also protect His people from what is going to come against 'her' and anyone IN her at that time.


And it doesn't matter what anyone is teaching, anywhere... we need only listen to Him, and remain in Him. He will teach and lead us. Outside of Him, we can do nothing.


Peace to you!

tammy

"You cannot pour new wine into old wineskins"

BOO-YOW, dear tec! Peace... to both you and our dear P!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar