xjwsforChrist

Peace to you!

Part of the deal on the Palestinian side is that the Palestinians (represented by Abbas) would not attempt to apply to become a member of the UN... and I do not understand why that would be a problem. If anyone has insight into this, could you help me out please? I am also having a hard time understanding why Israel does not want Palestine to join international conventions and treaties. I mean, I can understand why Israel would not want them to join.. if.. it gave Palestine a legitimate and diplomatic platform, recognition, and more strength in negotiating; and especially if it meant that Israel has something to hide. But that seems pretty... well, wrong, lol.

I am not saying that this IS the case. I am just saying that I do not understand.

So I am wondering if someone else knows of a more legitimate reason that they would not want them to join the UN. Because of the Palestinians join the UN, or those conventions and treaties, then they are also subject to the decrees IN the UN, conventions and treaties. Which I would think SHOULD be welcome... as it would be a diplomatic means of settling differences, negotiating and upholding treaties. (Not that members in the UN don't ignore UN stipulations and rulings at times)


I am searching for what I might be missing.

Peace and thank you,
your sister and servant and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Greetings to You, One and All:

May you have Peace.

This morning I had a conversation with an attorney with whom I work. He is a Jew. I asked him why Israel does not want Palestine/Palestinians to be members of the UN. He said that it wasn’t a question of whether Israel wants Palestine to be a member or not of the UN. He said that Palestine is NOT a “nation” and/or “country” as defined by the UN Charter, and for that reason alone, Palestine doesn’t even qualify for membership in the UN. So I asked him what was Palestine before Israel was setup back in 1948. He said Palestine was a British Mandate—still not a “nation” or “country”—still not qualifying even back then.

I then asked him, how can Israel say that the land of Israel/Palestine belongs to them when MANY Jews do not believe in God, or a God. How can a God that does not exist give land to them? He agreed. He admitted that indeed MANY Jews do not believe in the existence of God but claim the land, nonetheless, simply because THEIR accepted history is that the land belongs to them--period.

The attorney stated that he is only concerned with things AS THEY ARE NOW. “Let’s fix things now!” is what he stated. He wants to deal with issues as they exist NOW not with things due to history or belief.

He then changed the subject to legal issues in the here and now of our office.

--Armand

Thank you for asking Armand! His response raises a few other questions from me, but I think I need to ponder them for a bit, before posting more.



(You also asked a question I was thinking about the other day also, in how an 'atheist' Jewish person could possibly think that Israelis are entitled to land 'given by God'... if, as far as he is concerned, there is no God).

Thank you again for asking!

Peace to you,
your sister and servant and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

I SO wanted to respond to this earlier, dear tec (peace to you, luv!)... because of what I received (early this morning), but work didn't give me the chance (I was only to post very briefly today)... AND I was waiting for dear Armand (peace!) to share something I asked him to. I had no idea why (hadn't really thought about it), but received the following from our dear Lord:

He told me, first, what dear Armand shared: that Palestine isn't a state, and so Israel is using that as a basis for NOT wanting Palestine to be a member of the UN. But there's more, of course, and that is:

1. Israel (and I used that term very loosely, which I will explain in a minute) is afraid that (a) either the world will CONSTITUTE the Palestinians a state, thus allowing it membership in the UN... or that (b) membership prior to will necessarily DICTATE that it subsequently be constituted a state...

2. In order to be a state, there has to be a country/state...

3. In order for there to be a country/state... there has to be land...

4. The land in question... is Gaza... which Israel does NOT want to give up. Why?

5. Because if Palestine is either constituted a state in order to BE a member of the UN... or given Gaza so as to be constituted a state and thus qualify for membership in the UN, a number of things that are not in Israel's best interest will occur:

a. Most importantly... the Palestinians will have a voice... where they have none for some time (certainly not since the establishment of ISRAEL as a state back in 1948)... which voice will probably negate Israel's claim that they "bought" the land they now possess FROM the Palestinians (as with the western world, many either don't know... or have forgotten... about the issues raised in King Hussein's letter, which you shared with us a bit ago)...

b. Secondly, Israel will have yet another enemy as part of the UN, if not more (if the truth gets out about how they received that land and why)...

c. The Palestinians already have allies among the UN members (Iran, Chine, Syria, Egypt, Libya, etc.). Because an actual member themselves, with a voice, will weaken Israel's already uncertain position...

d. And so, Israel doesn't want Palestine to be accepted into the UN.

Which is TRULY what the land-grab is all about, NOW: as long as Israel can keep the Palestinians from having land, it can keep it from becoming a country/state, and as long as they can keep them from becoming a country/state, they can keep them out of the UN. And as long as they can keep them out of the UN... the truth can be obscured.

Now, here's the thing about "Israel": not all Jews have a problem with Palestinians nor condone the conduct/actions against Palestinians by Israel. It's not even most. It IS, however, the Israeli governmental leadership which, I am coming to learn, is led by "Zionist" Jews... and such Zionist Jews. I do not know enough about that movement to comment on it, but I will share that last weekend dear Hubby and I went to an even at the Contemporary Jewish Museum in San Francisco where I learned much more about it than I'd known before.

The event was to exhibit the works of Arthur Szyk, a renowned Jewish artist/cartoonist/illuminator/political activist (I have shared with you all that dear hubby is a calligrapher/illuminator). You can find out more about Mr. Szyk and his art in this links:

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Szyk

http://www.szyk.org/

This particular was to display Mr. Szyk's art, particularly his various publications of the Haggadah (Jewish Prayer Book setting out the 15 steps of the Passover Seder). The exhibit was very interesting (Mr. Szyk's artistic ability was genius, but his combining of religion and politics isn't to my personal taste. I digress.).

The event also included a lecture on Mr. Szyk's politics and how he used his art to foment his Zionist beliefs, however, by former rabbi and renowned author and Szyk artifact collector/dealer, Irvin Ungar:

http://www.szyk.com/irvin-ungar/curriculum-vitae.htm

Mr. Ungar's lecture was very interesting (although, I was posting on here during its entirety - LOLOL!) and afterward, he opened the floor to questions... some of which were quite interesting (they asked as to his own political POVs re the situation between Israel/Palestine, the most interesting of which skillfully deflected). One lady, however, stood out in MY mind, not because of her question but because of her comment when he deflected HER question, which was (after asking Mr. Ungar his opinion on the things "going on" in the middle east and region)... openly stated that at times she was "absolutely embarrassed to be a Jew." Several others nodded, but Mr. Ungar deflected that, too. And he didn't appear very happy about the comment.

Anyway, when I add what that lady said to the way I am treated by Jews I KNOW (and I know several, as there are JCCs that own low-income housing, as well as Jewish immigrants from Russia, Armenia, Poland and elsewhere who live in some of the properties I have managed over the years, AND there are a LOT of Jewish lawyers... four of whom I play in various bands with)... which is very respectful... I think I can honestly say that not all Jews are happy with what Israel is doing "over there."

I am sure a great many are, of course, but I would think them perhaps not as educated (as to the details) as some others.
As I shared the other day, the Russian gentleman that I discussed Crimea and Ukraine with indicated that Israel is actually a very insignificant place and force for him and most of the Jews of Russia. My impression is that they are RUSSIANS first, THEN Jews.

I share all of that to maybe help put things in a better perspective, at least as to many Jews. Many folks "hate" Jews, in general (not anyone here, I'm sure), or think all of them are "for" what the state of Israel is doing "over there." But being Jewish is not necessarily a nationality. It is first an ethnicity, then a religion/culture, THEN a nationality (which would really only be for those who live in the area formerly known as "Judea"... or Israel, today).

Anyway, just some tidbits, as well as info that I received, to share. I hope there's some answers in there for you, somewhere - LOLOL!

Peace to you!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar

Shelby, yes, to all the things you heard from our Lord. I have been hearing these also, and seeing them in the evidence.

(not just Gaza as the land, but also the West Bank; unless you have heard something specific about Gaza... I have mostly concentrated on the West Bank)

I have been 'resisting' in a sense, in trying to give Israel (the state of Israel) the benefit of the doubt that they have some legitimate reason, and to avoid being biased. I have wanted to know their arguments.

But yeah, it does not make sense to make it part of the deal that Palestine cannot apply to the UN because it is against the rules, since they are not a state. I assume that the rest of the UN members know the rules as well, lol. I do think that many members DO recognize them as a state though, if not officially, then a state in waiting, and symbolically. (A few years ago the Palestinians did get recognized already as a non-member observer state. But that is because they needed only a majority vote from the members already in (138 countries votes yes, out of 193); whereas to be a full member of the UN, they need nine votes of a 15 member council, and the US can veto it even if they get the votes. (which they are expected to do) I had to research the UN to see exactly how they work. ))


Israel did not have to wait on negotiations with the Palestinians in order to declare themselves a State... but Palestine has to wait upon successful negotiations with Israel (who are the occupiers in their lands) to declare themselves a state. Really gives Israel the upper hand (especially with the States in their corner with veto power in the UN), especially if the Palestinians do not have an official voice.

They are definitely not on even ground here.



You are also correct that the actions and sentiment of the state of Israel does not reflect the actions and sentiments of all Jewish people. There are a great many Jewish people, and groups, who actively disagree with the treatment of the Palestinians by the State of Israel. Not just in America or other places, but also some in Israel as well. So that is a good thing to keep in mind, and emphasize, because I think history shows us how easily man will pick up on a bias to an entire people, based on the actions of some.



Peace to you both, and thank you for you help, and sharing what you have heard!
Your sister and servant and fellow slave of Christ,
tammy

Oy vey!... the West Bank AND Gaza, yes, dear tec (peace, luv... and I don't know HOW I missed typing that!! WAY too fast fingers, I guess! LOLOL!).

For anyone who wants a little more background, this Wikipedia link is actually pretty good (i.e., accurate), historically speaking:

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories

Peace (the kind that Christ gives, which will lead to the kind that (most) of mankind want... and I say most, 'cause there's a LOT of moola to be made by war, so please don't anyone think that NO ONE wants war - as nothing could be further from the truth!)... in the Middle East... and EVERYWHERE!

YSSFS of Christ,

Shellamar