xjwsforChrist

A good scientist worthy of the name Does not do that, and most scientists would scorn such an unscientific approach. The scientific method is one of meticulous observation and recording what has been observed, and then deduction. 

Belief is not involved. If a mistake in deduction is found, then the process is gone through again. There is no holding to belief. Hypotheses are formulated but discarded if the facts don't fit. 

Paul, why do you say that all humans have faith, a form of belief? That's an absolute statement and I wonder how you would support it?

Hi Paul,

You say:

"even with 100% proof, what we have because we are humans and don't know everything, is still a form of belief."

I see it as such my self, too. Yet, what I Know, is that, belief, faith and hope ARE not Factual Knowledge. The three elements are basically a guessing game, if you will.

We still, as the Humans, 'born' into such a TZ, QUESTion so many things. Will we ever Know [THE] why? of ANYTHING that is going on around us at this very moment we are reading this and/or continue QUESTioning each other over the concept of WHO KNOWS WHAT?

Thank you for sharing YOUR ideas Paul. Fascinating subject to ponder over while you lay your head down tonight.

~skally~

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

Belief, faith, and hope... are not the same things, dear Skalls (peace!). Belief is what I think "is", "is not", "may be", "may not be," etc. Hope is what I wish for/want/don't want/wish for. Faith... is the certain/sure expectation of WHAT I hope for... based on demonstrated EVIDENCE... although such demonstration may not have been realized by my eyes (of flesh). It could very well have been heard, felt, smelled, or tasted, though. Or not. But it is not blind, nor it is based on unsubstantiatable "belief" or unattainable "hope."

Unfortunately, it is the results of attempts by those who don't know what faith IS... but claim to have to (or had it) to explain what it "is"... that has resulted in most of mankind not knowing what it IS... and perhaps... that they don't TRULY have it.

Perhaps, just like those (of us) who don't know [much about] science probably shouldn't try to teach IT... those who don't know much about, indeed perhaps lack... faith... shouldn't try to explain it. Just MHO, though, as who am I to stand in the way of those who WANT to be misled?

I hope that helps!

Again, peace to you!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar

Since all facts are based on perception and understanding, then outside of mathematical (non-theoritcal mathematics)facts, all facts are based on belief.

As much as we would like to get around the notion of belief, because human knowledge is never perfect but as best adequate, we can't get around belief.

I don't think we should view hope and faith as guessing games.
Certainly blind hope and faith are but no one views those types as ideal.
Correct faith and hope is WARRANTED faith and hope, and is based on reason and rationality ( to what degree depends on the person of course).

Hi Paul,

You say:

I don't think ...

I say:

I know, you do not think this way...meaning you do not Believe, what I am saying is to Be true.

It's okay sir.

I keep saying who knows, and that I do not.

Have a pleasant day.

~skally~

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

Sorry, I don't understand...

Don't Be. I already said it is okay.

~skally~

_________________
"I am proud to say that I will not lift one finger ( except my middle finger) for the WTBTS."

Pardon the interjection (peace to you all!), but I'm not SO sure that's exactly what you MEANT, though, dear Skalls (peace!). You said it was "okay" to YOUR 'splanation of what dear P (peace, luv!) "meant":



You didn't ASK him what he meant, but TOLD him [at least, you told him what, in truth, you THOUGHT he meant, which could be true... or NOT; his comment that he DIDN'T understand seems to indicate not, though).

Which I found quite curious (that you find it okay when you think someone doesn't believe what you're saying is true... but can't, for some reason, afford others the same "privilege" - for example, me not being concerned that YOU don't believe what I am stating is true, which you frequently seem to have problems with. No, no... that wasn't a question; it was a statement, which you don't have to BELIEVE is true... but IS true... so I'm not looking for an "answer" from you).

But I figured, what the hey... who cares what ANYONE else believes as to whether what they state is true or not? Well, okay, the truth is that I don't, so... I see nothing wrong with assuming others don't either (and humankind does often show this)... so, no good reason, IMHO, to continue the... mmmmm... fruitless... back and forth.

Now, though, it seems as if you're trying to assert that what was "okay" was that dear P didn't understand you. Which IS okay, of course... but not REALLY what you asserted (which is why I feel compelled to jump BACK in your "fray" and comment). Which is probably WHY he DIDN'T understand you. That... and the very "confused" way in which you state what you do. In which light, who would (understand), luv?

But, who cares? It's ALL "okay"... right?

Peace!

Your servant and a slave of Christ,

Shellamar